If Obamacare is so great why......

[Shadow Wolf]

The problem is a shortage of medical practitioners. By requiring practitioners to attend expensive universities and expensive internships with hospitals. the government creates a shortage of practitioners. Then to balance this shortage it attempts to use further regulation. The idea is a moral one: to prevent quack medicine. The effect is: shortages and high prices.

Doctors have to go to these expensive universities because, for one, our education system in America is very expensive, and because doctors have to be highly and thoroughly trained, especially those who specialize in certain areas like brain surgery, but especially those who are general practitioners and have to know alittle bit about everything.

 

[DallasApple]

I don't even have so much a beef with the actual "doctor" fees.They have huge expenses obvioulsy to get the degree and their mal practice insurance etc..Its getting charged $750 just as a 'admittance" (flat charge like a 'cover charge) the emergency room.Lets just say you have suspected pneumonia ...2,000 for an MRI..confirms .you need to be admitted ..1500 a day for the room..$500 a day for the intravenous antibiotics..$300 a day for breathing treatments...$300 x 2 for two 10 minute consultations with an actual dr. a separate $500 for the lab work on your blood..So in just ONE day you aren't even looking at surgery or anything like that..you owe 6,900 for having the nerve to get sick in the first place then further have the nerve not to want to die yet or tell your family to kiss your *** goodbye .And NO you aren't OLD ..you are you are THREE!

 

[Falvlun]

Maybe the SCAM isn't low life lazy people but insurance companies getting rich FILTHY effing rich off of the payers who work to pay their premiums...

What I would like to see? If tomorrow NO INSURANCE company got a dime.I can barely even calculate how much insurance companies have PROFITED off of me..And then someone like you spouts about working 12 hours a day and health not being an "automatic"...Did you hear me Rick??Just in premiums over the past meh..20 years?We have filled the FAT pockets of insurance companies by about ...150,000/.That's AFTER they paid anything out..

That is how some countries do it-- instead of a public option, they make the insurance companies not-for-profit.

I haven't looked into how well that works, but I'm assuming it must be better than here since we basically pay double what the rest of the developed world pays for healthcare, and for an inferior product to boot.

Everyone should STOP paying insurance companies if you ask me..Just go with the Obama care thing..what is it?10% of your income..then what ??coughing sick dying people stumbling in the streets???Women dying at home giving birth?Uh oh..NO MORE WORK FORCE...the higher ups will fix that lickety split!

Well, to be fair, the Obama thing is just more of the same-- having to buy for-profit insurance in order to be able to afford health care. What the ACA did was constrain some of the worst money-grabbing practices, like denying people with pre-existing conditions or dropping their coverage when they get sick, expand how long young adults can be covered under their parents' insurance (since the wacky way America has decided to supply healthcare insurance is through employment), and set up insurance exchanges so that people who can't get their insurance through employment, or who want to shop around, can get the same sort of group benefit that employers are able to get when they supply the insurance.

 

[Falvlun]

I guess some folks think living long enough to live in a nursing home is desirable. You have no rights, you cannot leave, they serve you crap food and let you lay in your own poop.

Everyone is broke, but we fund the rebuilding of old folks. New eyes, knees, hips and they spend their days going to one doctor's office after another.

It is almost like having a full time job for them.

Folks, we are all going to die. Sticking around being a burden on society is selfish just delaying the inevitable.

Young folks don't listen to medical advice, they are told to lose weight or quit smoking but they don't.

I see young students that are too fat to use the stairs at universities. They are not even 30 years old and look disabled to me.

Many young folks have old folks conditions already. High blood pressure, diabetes, gout........

So the fact that some people don't take care of themselves and that some retirement facilities are crappy is a good enough reason why Americans should continue paying nearly double what the rest of the developed world pays for healthcare, while continuing to receive substandard results?

Jane is fat, therefore, we should continue propping up an awful system! Yay! Because that makes so much sense.

 

[Brickjectivity]

There was another shovel club?

No, no, no. Ok, the picture I showed you apparently was a fake. Here is a picture of the original. I think you will notice there is a certain resemblance. The Shovel Club is an ancient club that goes way back in time.

 

[DallasApple]

Jane is fat, therefore, we should continue propping up an awful system! Yay! Because that makes so much sense.

Don't forget John smokes.And old people take medication too instead of just dying at 65 because they have heart disease .They also have the audacity to want to be able to walk the last 20 years of their life instead of being crippled in a wheel chair and in chronic pain and have the hip replacement surgery.

 

[Falvlun]

I'll raise Rev's "old people go to the doctor everyday for things they don't need because they are hypochondriacs and are going to die in a decade anyway and therefore are to blame for our healthcare price crises and they should just deal with it and die all ready" with my dear old Auntie Shirley anecdote.

My Auntie Shirley has been 80 for like my entire life. Seriously. She has always been this incredibly old person for as long as I can remember. But she's got spunk. She's always game for everything, can tell bawdy stories along with the rest of 'em, and still works full time at Walgreens-- because she loves being out with people. I hope I grow up to be an old lady like her.

Anyway, she's always had hip problems. A decade or more ago she had gotten her hip replaced. I remember us wheeling her around Chicago as a kid with a whole group of my crazy family and us losing control of her wheelchair and she going flying down this hill with squeals of delight. A good memory for all (and no one, not even Auntie Shirley, got hurt.)

Anyway, she's always limped. Even after the hip replacement. A decade plus after the hip replacement, she finally goes into the doctor to have it checked out, to see why she's still limping, or maybe the pain finally was getting to her.

Apparently, my dear, lovely Auntie Shirley has been walking on a detached hip all these years. The hip replacement was faulty and had almost immediately detached or wore out, and hadn't been connected for at least 7 years.

She was able to get it fixed, and is now able to walk, limp and pain free.

So no, contrary to our Rev's proclamations, all old people aren't running to the doctor for every little thing. Not even for every big thing. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[Revoltingest]

No, no, no. Ok, the picture I showed you apparently was a fake. Here is a picture of the original. I think you will notice there is a certain resemblance. The Shovel Club is an ancient club that goes way back in time.

That is one fetching fellow!

 

[DallasApple]

Dallas keep them coming. This is what many in our society don't understand about the cost of healthcare. Now just imagine if you had to pay the total monthly cost for your premium, a co-pay and percentage of the overall bill.....but even with an employer paying for a large portion ofv your monthly premiun we woukd still end up in horribe crushing debt if faced with a surgery etc..... I have health insurance through my job and I have AFLAC for the just in case scenario. I think the ACA is a step in the right direction just like RomneyCare and other similar programs but they still fall short of Universal Healthcare.

This is in part what I talk about..In order to keep our premiums low what we could afford(we are self employed) by low I mean $800 a month for 4 people.We had to opt for a $5,000 deductable per PERSON.Not to mention we are still responsible for 30% of some procedures up to a certain amount.

When the doctor told me I needed a hysterctomy..the surgical center called me about a week before to let me know what my coverage was for their services I would need to pay them 6,800...and that wasn't including what my doctor charged.So well over 7,000 .So just for that one year ..our premiums and a very commonly performed surgery would have been 16,600 even if no one else got sick or hurt in my family.

But my husband has diabetes and he has to go to the doctor every six months and he takes 2 prescriptions.Its not 'outrageous' but if you tack that expense on bump that # up to over 17,000.

Sorry Rick my husband didn't want to die in his 40's but before he did go blind have his legs start to rot off..

But you will be proud of me..I decided to NOT have the hysterectomy and just live with fibroids in my uterus and endure the extremely painful monthly periods in which I bleed heavily and become anemic.I hope you don't mind though that a few years back I had pre-cervical cancer and had surgery to removed those cells..so now I go to the doctor 'all the time'(once every couple of years) to have a pap smear because I'm at risk of that coming back.

Oh and Im 45.Is that too old to still want to be alive?Or am I just selfish?

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh and Im 45.Is that too old to still want to be alive? Or am I just selfish?

You are quite selfish, but not nearly as much as I am. (I'll be 60 in a few days.)

 

[DallasApple]

I'll raise Rev's "old people go to the doctor everyday for things they don't need because they are hypochondriacs and are going to die in a decade anyway and therefore are to blame for our healthcare price crises and they should just deal with it and die all ready" with my dear old Auntie Shirley anecdote.

My Auntie Shirley has been 80 for like my entire life. Seriously. She has always been this incredibly old person for as long as I can remember. But she's got spunk. She's always game for everything, can tell bawdy stories along with the rest of 'em, and still works full time at Walgreens-- because she loves being out with people. I hope I grow up to be an old lady like her.

Anyway, she's always had hip problems. A decade or more ago she had gotten her hip replaced. I remember us wheeling her around Chicago as a kid with a whole group of my crazy family and us losing control of her wheelchair and she going flying down this hill with squeals of delight. A good memory for all (and no one, not even Auntie Shirley, got hurt.)

Anyway, she's always limped. Even after the hip replacement. A decade plus after the hip replacement, she finally goes into the doctor to have it checked out, to see why she's still limping, or maybe the pain finally was getting to her.

Apparently, my dear, lovely Auntie Shirley has been walking on a detached hip all these years. The hip replacement was faulty and had almost immediately detached or wore out, and hadn't been connected for at least 7 years.

She was able to get it fixed, and is now able to walk, limp and pain free.

So no, contrary to our Rev's proclamations, all old people aren't running to the doctor for every little thing. Not even for every big thing. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

I like your aunt!

My mother also had degenerative hip disease in one hip..The problem started in her 40's..She waited until her mid 60's until it was inevitable (any time) she would just have to use a wheel chair.She was in very bad pain.

Oddly it was a very new 'improved" hip device..that now has been RECALLED because of the level of chromium and cobalt that sheds off the pole.she has to go to the doctor every couple of weeks to have those levels checked.Unfortunately 2nd hip replacement have a very low success rate I'm assuming because of scar tissue.

Anyway my point is she she waited until the "last" minute to have that surgery.

And my other point is now..if not for going to the doctor..she would have died many many years ago.First at 31.When complications due to giving birth to my youngest sister she developed a staff infection and almost died. She felt sick for months before she went to the doctor .By the time she went she was vomiting feces...(her intestines were paralyzed)..And shortly there after she again had the nerve to take that infant child to the emergency room who was admitted with spinal meningitis that would have killed her within days had my mother not had the balls to suspect something that serious.Oh that's right my mother should have been dead already and I guess maybe I could have found my little sister dead in her crib or something.

 

[DallasApple]

You are quite selfish, but not nearly as much as I am. (I'll be 60 in a few days.)

You have lived longer than me you should just get over your self and die so I can have a hysterectomy.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Yes, but you need 6 months and maybe even a years worth of bill money kept liquid first before you invest. You have to be able to afford to lose your money in investments first. Once you reach that level, it is much easier to sleep at night.

Thats the thing. Both republicans and democrats, conservatives and liberals want that. Everyone wants hard work to pay off and lazyness to be punished. Both parties want that. The defining difference is who they say is lazy and who they say is hard working.

The democrats say that the poor and middle class are hard working while a lot of the upper class gets an overwhelming unfair advantage.

The republicans say that the middle class and upper class are hard working while the poor are lazy and is the only explination for their poor-ness.


But at the core everyone wants hard work to pay off. I don't side with either party but my thoughts no the matter is it shouldn't be as expensive as it currently is to go to college. People shouldn't be paid what people are being paid right now. And I don't think there is any excuse for people to be raking in billions and billions for individuals and trillions with recrod high high corporation profits where the overwhelming vast majority of them pay less than 5% in effective tax rates.

I would love for them to be able to do that but not if at the same time 90% of the country is struggling with the largest homeless crisis we've ever seen, recrod setting lows to our inflation configured income levels and wages or the high unemployment we've been seeing. And then on top of that the taxes don't go up for corporations, the loopholes aren't closed, taxes go up a measely 3% for like 10% of our population (maybe less) and then we turn around and cut all kinds of programs exactly meant to help the people being screwed the most.

Thats where i get kinda ****** at our whole situation. And I ask you right now do you see where I"m comming from or do you write this off as crazy liberal BS?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I guess some folks think living long enough to live in a nursing home is desirable. You have no rights, you cannot leave, they serve you crap food and let you lay in your own poop.

Everyone is broke, but we fund the rebuilding of old folks. New eyes, knees, hips and they spend their days going to one doctor's office after another.

It is almost like having a full time job for them.

Folks, we are all going to die. Sticking around being a burden on society is selfish just delaying the inevitable.

Young folks don't listen to medical advice, they are told to lose weight or quit smoking but they don't.

I see young students that are too fat to use the stairs at universities. They are not even 30 years old and look disabled to me.

Many young folks have old folks conditions already. High blood pressure, diabetes, gout........

Agreed.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

and for an inferior product to boot.

A product so inferior, people travel here from all around the world for treatment...

 

[Brickjectivity]

Thats where i get kinda ****** at our whole situation. And I ask you right now do you see where I"m comming from or do you write this off as crazy liberal BS?

I think the undercurrent behind Republican thoughts about this actually comes from opinions taken from histories of the downfall of the Roman republic which goes like this: -

--> Long before Rome had emperors, Rome was a prosperous and idealistic Republic. This changed because some of its senators began to adopt a tactic of buying votes from the impoverished sectors of the population. This was so successful that they then implemented policies to maintain large populations of poor folk who depended upon welfare and entertainments. By means of this corruption of the original republican plan, the country gradually (over about a period of a century or half century I don't remember) became ruled by wealthy men who could buy votes. Eventually they obtained the means to buy other senators by this same method. Through this means the Roman Republic was destroyed and turned into an empire complete with monarchs claiming divinity. This is the history which the Republicans claim that they wish to avoid repeating. <------

It is the same history that Democrats claim they wish to avoid repeating. Any provision for the welfare of the poor creates a threat sensation in those who, not having majored in History, see any welfare as a way of buying votes. Any increase in the size of the government is also seen as a threat. Is it a threat? I'm not a Historian, but I know it gets hyped up too much. I know that Reagan was a terrific guy, but his supply side economics is not a complete economic theory. No economic policy, no matter how good, is good for every situation.
​

 

[Falvlun]

A product so inferior, people travel here from all around the world for treatment...

Yes, because extremely specialized care for extremely rare or complicated issues is what we all need.

Wasn't it you who suggested that those who can't afford care just do some health care tourism? That's right: Americans are going to other countries to get their healthcare too.

Look up some statistics, and get back to me. Preventative care in the U.S.-- you know, all the basic, normal run-of-the-mill, usual stuff that the vast majority of people will or at least should actually use-- is abysmal to non-existent. This means that we have a ridiculously high rate of diseases and emergency situations that could have cheaply and easily been taken care of. Our infant mortality is absurdly high. Our rate of women dying for complications regarding childbirth are among the highest in the developed world. In almost any statistic, the U.S. runs close to last, or a very mediocre middle of the pack, and this is despite the fact that we pay nearly double.

So go ahead, roll your eyes. But maybe you should try opening them to the real world once in a while too.

 

[Wirey]

guess you didn't read the posted links. Just regurgitating the left's propaganda.

Irony scale: 76

 

[freethinker44]

Irony scale: 76

Out of 10.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I think the undercurrent behind Republican thoughts about this actually comes from opinions taken from histories of the downfall of the Roman republic which goes like this: - It is the same history that Democrats claim they wish to avoid repeating. Any provision for the welfare of the poor creates a threat sensation in those who, not having majored in History, see any welfare as a way of buying votes. Any increase in the size of the government is also seen as a threat. Is it a threat? I'm not a Historian, but I know it gets hyped up too much. I know that Reagan was a terrific guy, but his supply side economics is not a complete economic theory. No economic policy, no matter how good, is good for every situation.​

I see. Though I'm not a Democrat I tend to like their politicans more than the Republican ones as of recent. But the idea of a large government is dangerous but not as dangerous as large corporations.

Reganomics is unfortunatly wrong and a failed system. Trickle down, Supply side, ect ect ect are all unfortunatly wrong. They do not work and no model in history has ever shown them to be good in practice.