If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[djhwoodwerks]

When you believe in false doctrine, you will make the bible or any book for that matter, into what you want it to be.

Like you, and millions of other people have done?

Jesus never said nor hinted that he was God at anytime. The trinity has nothing to do with scripture and was put in my man.

You always reply with your "opinion" and not scripture. Please give your "opinion" on the scripture I presented.

Jesus was God manifest. But he wasnt God himself. Scripture tells us that Jesus was like us. Same nature, inheritied sin nature from Adam through Mary. God always worked through his son. Jesus perfectly manifested his father charactor and will. The things that God would have done, Jesus did. Jesus carries the name of his father at all times and showed that to the apostles and everyone. He had every right to say those words.

Same thing. Jesus represented his father. God was in his son. He had every right to say that.

Right, my daughter can spend some time with her friends, and they say, "can we meet your dad" and you claim she can say, "have I been with you this long and you still don't know me?" ?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

You conveniently leave out 14:10 which shows God does the work - not Jesus.

This in no way says Jesus is God, nor is Jesus saying he is God.

It very specifically says God is within him, and GOD does the works.

Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.*

Just like you conveniently forgot to highlight verses 8 & 9!

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[ukok102nak]

Well as usual, you have called me names and claimed I know nothing.

Isn't it interesting that you don't instead put forth actual rebuttal?

This speaks volumes.

*

~;> CALLED YOU WHAT
DONT EVEN TRY TO FALSE TESTIFIED UNTO US
COZ IF YOU CANT EVEN UNDERSTAND A SIMPLE THING ABOUT DIFFERENCES IN EVERY BELIEF THEN YOUR REALLY OUT OF YOUR MIND

This proof is usually made out by the testimony of witnesses, but it
is presumed it might be made out by writings; as if the party could prove by
a record properly authenticated, that on the day or at the time in question,
he was in another place
so as this volume of sentiment of yours again

just speak the truth which came from the scriptures as you were arguing about the written words of god

and also
use logic and some common sense
as simple as that
and do not used
a system of biblical interpretation taught by man
AS THE THING YOU WANT TO SPREAD HERE
THATS WHY
YOU FAILED AGAIN AND AGAIN
YOU MISARABLE CREATURE OF GOD AGAIN
(this words was been said
by a fellow atheist of ours
he is saying this coz he dont believe that humans were created by god/gods
he used this term not to insult anyone
but to tell the truth about you
and probably your accepting this statement coz your a creature created by god)
OK NEXT


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[Oeste]

What I said was absolutely correct. There is no evil angel called Lucifer in Tanakh. In fact no one is named Lucifer in Tanakh.

Okay...…♫”You say ‘The Adversary,’, I say ‘Satan’…let's not write the whole thing (Christianity) off.” ♬

Better?

To "reveal" is to show something already there, - that we didn't see. You folks are not "revealing," - you are taking Tanakh ONE God verses, and adding crap to them - and then claiming they are somehow about Jesus. Baloney!

Who are these “You folks”? Are you referring to Jesus and his apostles?

If Jesus was “adding crap” rather than revealing, can you kindly explain how he was he able to confound the teachers of the Law @ Luke 20:40, Matthew 22:46?

The writer of Hebrews was just as inspired as the writers of Psalm. Any "additions" would have come from the Holy Spirit. I think you would have a difficult time arguing New Testament writings as uninspired on this forum. It would be just as difficult as a Buddhist arguing against the Tanakh

"Inspiration" is your religious ideas.

My religious ideas are not inspired

But You folks are taking another religion, and claiming you know more about it than the writers, and say it speaks of Jesus, - which is bull.

As I stated earlier, and as you have just shown, you’re going to have a difficult time arguing New Testament writings are uninspired on this forum.

The Israelites have worshipped many Gods throughout their history, but like all of us, have only one true God. They appear to have completed a gradual shift from monolatrism to monotheism sometime during the 3rd century BC, but I’m sure many would argue the point. As to "...they are Israelites and have ONE God, - no trinity", theTriune God is one God, and I see no conflict for Christians there, but a lot of disagreement from Orthodox Jews

Of course they HAD many Gods, - however they then made a ONE God covenant with YHVH.

They still worshipped more Gods than the one God of Christianity.

You folks can argue all you want that your trinity God isn't polytheism, but that doesn't fool the rest of us.

One could argue Tritheism is Trinitarianism, but it only fools the naïve.

Jesus wasn't perfect. He could have been in perfect alignment with God's teachings and will, - and still be an imperfect human.

He incites riots at Temples, flings around a whip in anger, more then once, - rather than teaching why, calls people derogatory names like dog and fool, and possibly has guerrilla fighters in his entourage that pack short fighting swords, etc.

Let me get this straight…your “imperfect Jesus” incites riots at Temples, flings around a whip in anger, calls people derogatory names like “dog” and “fool”, and has guerilla fighters in his entourage because he was “in perfect alignment with God’s teachings and will”???

I have to ask: Who do you really consider imperfect here…Jesus or the Father?

 

[Ingledsva]

Just like you conveniently forgot to highlight verses 9 & 10!

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

LOL! No Jesus is God there.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

~;> CALLED YOU WHAT
DONT EVEN TRY TO FALSE TESTIFIED UNTO US
COZ IF YOU CANT EVEN UNDERSTAND A SIMPLE THING ABOUT DIFFERENCES IN EVERY BELIEF THEN YOUR REALLY OUT OF YOUR MIND

This proof is usually made out by the testimony of witnesses, but it
is presumed it might be made out by writings; as if the party could prove by
a record properly authenticated, that on the day or at the time in question,
he was in another place
so as this volume of sentiment of yours again

just speak the truth which came from the scriptures as you were arguing about the written words of god

and also
use logic and some common sense
as simple as that
and do not used
a system of biblical interpretation taught by man
AS THE THING YOU WANT TO SPREAD HERE
THATS WHY
YOU FAILED AGAIN AND AGAIN
YOU MISARABLE CREATURE OF GOD AGAIN
(this words was been said
by a fellow atheist of ours
he is saying this coz he dont believe that humans were created by god/gods
he used this term not to insult anyone
but to tell the truth about you
and probably your accepting this statement coz your a creature created by god)
OK NEXT


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

Note - that if you continue to call me names, rather than bother to give a rebuttal to the posts, - I WILL report you!

*

 

[Ingledsva]

Okay...…♫”You say ‘The Adversary,’, I say ‘Satan’…let's not write the whole thing (Christianity) off.” ♬

Better?

Satan is in Tanakh. Lucifer is not. That is a fact.

Who are these “You folks”? Are you referring to Jesus and his apostles?

If Jesus was “adding crap” rather than revealing, can you kindly explain how he was he able to confound the teachers of the Law @ Luke 20:40, Matthew 22:46?

You have got to be kidding! You don't understand who YOU folks are?

Jesus was Jewish, - he taught Tanakh. Later CHRISTIANS are the ones that took Tanakh texts and added to them.

My religious ideas are not inspired

LOL! OK!

As I stated earlier, and as you have just shown, you’re going to have a difficult time arguing New Testament writings are uninspired on this forum.

That is interesting - as I have been here for years, - and have had no problem showing error in NT texts.

They still worshipped more Gods than the one God of Christianity.

What would that have to do with anything? They made a ONE God covenant! You worship a triple God, and no matter how you put it, - it is multiple Gods.

One could argue Tritheism is Trinitarianism, but it only fools the naïve.

We are talking about people who believe in the trinity concept - as only one God.

NT has all three in action, in the same verse, at the same time. Two thrones are not needed in Heaven if there is only one God. One prays to the other. NO TRINITY.

Let me get this straight…your “imperfect Jesus” incites riots at Temples, flings around a whip in anger, calls people derogatory names like “dog” and “fool”, and has guerilla fighters in his entourage because he was “in perfect alignment with God’s teachings and will”???

Why are you trying to twist a sentence?

Obviously - as the Jewish Messiah, - a special HUMAN from the line of David, - which Jesus claimed to be, - he could be in perfect alignment with God, - doing God's will, - and he would still be an imperfect HUMAN.

Your Bible has Jesus saying -

Mark 10:18 "Why do you call me good," Jesus replied? "No one is good except God alone."

I have to ask: Who do you really consider imperfect here…Jesus or the Father?

Obviously the discussion was about Jesus being imperfect.

YHVH being imperfect is another debate.

*

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You conveniently leave out 14:10 which shows God does the work - not Jesus.

This in no way says Jesus is God, nor is Jesus saying he is God.

It very specifically says God is within him, and GOD does the works.

Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

*

You know, if adherents to the trinity want to 'latch on' to particular statements at the expense of the context, as in John 20 "he that has seen me has seen the Father." then what do they do with Acts of the Apostles 9:4-5, "4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him: “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 He asked: “Who are you, Lord?” He said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting." Saul was persecuting the Christians. To use the trinitarian's - and 'Jesus is God' adherent's - SOP, Jesus is now his followers.

 

[Kenny]

Back to the topic; if Jesus were God, how could he be tempted?

The accepted answer (by most) is that he had emptied himself of God glory and his power to come down as a man (Phil 2). Thus his prayer of John 17:
5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (Don't know why the emphasis came out on the copy/paste)

As one filled with glory, he would not have been tempted. Thus his need to be anointed of the Holy Spirit even as man needs the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

(hope I expressed that in a way to make it understandable.)

That's a great question... I question why God would allow the beating of a slave (Exodus 21:20-21).
To be honest, I don't know. I choose to accept this is just another example of how religion is used as a control tool. If you say God says it's okay... well that makes it okay. I'm obviously no authority for God... hell maybe he does think it's okay to beat a slave... how am I to know? I can't justify it though, nor is it something I'd teach my children, therefore I can't imagine God would approve.

Perhaps a Rabbi can give his comment on this scripture. But I agree that it isn't something I'd teach my children nor would it sanctioned by Christians who follow HIs teachings. (Of course, there have been Christians who would try to twist scripture to make anything acceptable.)

 

[Kenny]

That was quite a rant with a lot of twisting and turning.

We are talking about people who believe in the trinity concept - as only one God.

NT has all three in action, in the same verse, at the same time. Two thrones are not needed in Heaven if there is only one God. One prays to the other. NO TRINITY.

It is apparently consistent from the book of Isaiah 48:12,16-17:Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. When I call to them, They stand up together. Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me.Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: “I am the LORD your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.”

The Godhead is underlined.

Much like mankind, in the Christian understanding, spirit, soul and body. Each with a different materiality and purpose yet just one person.

Obviously - as the Jewish Messiah, - a special HUMAN from the line of David, -
*

Jesus dealt with this question... in Matt 22:
41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:
42 "What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?" They said to Him, "The son of David."
43 He said to them, "Then how does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying,
44 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET "'?
45 "If David then callsHim 'Lord,' how is He his son?"
46 No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.

I suppose you do have the answer?

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> report us for defeating
your your your arguments and ego
coz you failed to have a very logical and
also you failed to have understandable common sense
conversation (whatta loser you are indeed)
about this comments of ours
:read: (even you dont dont dont believe christ is god)
by the way
YOUR SENTIMENT IS SO LAME AND WEAK AND NOT JUST YOUR ARGUMENTS REGARDING THE BIBLE
Not only do you not understand the text,
- you don't understand
HOW TO DEFINE
THE BOOK OF PROVERBS
BY A SIMPLE LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE
and
instead
a system of biblical interpretation taught by man
YOU WANT TO SPREAD HERE
THATS WHY
YOU FAILED AGAIN
YOU MISARABLE CREATURE OF GOD
(this words was been said
by a fellow atheist of ours
he is saying this coz he dont believe that humans were created by god/gods
he used this term not to insult anyone
but to tell the truth about you
and
probably your accepting this statement coz your a creature created by god)

:note:
Not only do you not understand the text,
- you don't understand what we said!
your really out of your mind
probably again
we will report you
if you still insist your nonsense arguments
and egotistical attitutude of yours
coz you failed to have a very logical and
you also failed to have understandable common sense
conversation
about this comments of ours again
YOUR ONLY USING THE BIBLE FOR YOUR OWN AGENDA
COZ YOU WERE SAYING YOUR ARGUMENTS IN THE BIBLE
WITHOUT HAVIN AN UNDERSTANDIN UNTO THE VERY WRITTEN WORDS OF GOD

ALSO
YOU CANT EVEN UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT THAT IS WRITTEN IN
THE BOOK OF PROVERBS
AND
YOU CANT EVEN UNDERSTAND
WHAT EVERYONE IS SAYING HERE ABOUT THE WRITTEN OF WORDS OF GOD ITSELF

yeah in the written words of god
on the very written context of the bible
WHICH IS WRITTEN IN
THE BOOK OF PROVERBS
that says
Every word of God is flawless.
He is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
:rofl: AND YOU SAID

You folks continually take verses out of context, and understanding.

Verse 2 and 3 lead to verse 4. They are not asking for another God, or God son.

They are saying they have no understanding or knowledge,*

THATS WHY WE KEEP ON LAUGHING
AGAIN
(AS THIS ARE ONE OF OUR PRIVILEGES AS HUMANS )
UNTO THIS ARGUMENTS OF YOURS BECAUSED YOU EVEN TWISTED THE VERY LOGIC ITSELF BUT YOU FAILED TO AMUSE US
BUT THATS FINE WITH US
COZ YOU MAKE US LAUGHED AGAIN
VERY MUCH
THATS WHY WE FORGIVE YOU AGAIN
JUST BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME
AGAIN
OK NEXT AGAIN

and
again and again perhaps
your egotistic lifestyle has alienated many people over the years"

and also again
your not untouchable thats why we could report you also
if we may say so
OK NEXT


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

Note - that if you continue to call me names, rather than bother to give a rebuttal to the posts, - I WILL report you!

*

 

[look3467]

Isa_64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. Those who believe know that we.......are the works
of His hands.
So, lets look at His works.
Quote:
Jer_18:3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
Jer_18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Why suppose the first vessel was marred? I mean if we credit God the Creator with (Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day) then we have to conclude the Creator created all things perfect, right?
Then we find the first vessel was marred.
Which is it? Either He messed up or He made all things perfect.........as God.
The answer, in part, is in that same verse "he made it again another vessel",
"Again" as in......of the same clay lump He again made another vessel as it seemed good.
What suppose was the difference that made it necessary to "again" make another vessel.....this time as "it seemed good".
I believe the answer to the first vessel being marred is found in the following verse: Gen_3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

"Become as one of us" is plural:....... Separate/divided/individuality/as gods; have become marred. Not on purpose but by reason of becoming "as" gods. As one of us.
The second vessel, though made of the same lump of clay as the first did not become "as one of us" but rather was God Himself in the flesh.
Why? Because only God Himself could save His own creation.
Mankind itself was incapable of saving its own soul, because it became marred.
Only the creator Himself could, would and did made the seconded vessel for the express purpose of substituting it for the whole of humanity.
So..........Jesus was God with us.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

OH, your very welcome. And it's not just metaphors...... So are you saying that in Rev when it talks about dragons and the beasts, it's real?

"Rev_4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Four beasts = 4 desperate quarters of a day....six wings= 6 hours each.
Rev_19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. four and twenty elders
"four and twenty elders"= 24 hours in the day
Rev_11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. The day divided by two 12 hour periods=the Old testament period and the New testament period.

Metaphors used to give us a picture of Gods work in the salvation of humanity.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Ana.J]

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

If Jesus was God, why was he tempted by the Devil? Can God be tempted by the Devil, his own creation?

Granted, he passed the test. But if he was God... Why was there a test in the first place? Does God need to test himself?

Are God and Jesus really one in the same? Please answer logically how this is possible given the verse above.

I think you should take into account that people wrote the Bible and it has been translated multiple times so you cannot be sure the line is correct in the first place. Secondly, Jesus was not God (imo) he was a soul that came to teach us live in love.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Right, my daughter can spend some time with her friends, and they say, "can we meet your dad" and you claim she can say, "have I been with you this long and you still don't know me?" ?

Nice rebuttal, but in many cultures, when you are talking to the child you are talking to the whole family.

Like my friend is Philipine. When I, little ol American, ask how SHE feels about a deep topic say relationship, and I ask her "do you love him?" She pause because if her parents dont love him, she doesnt.

You cant break jesus from his father as any other cultural group buit on godly foundations.

So, it would be correct that your daughter's (Say Jane for conv.) friends met you, because she is your daughter. How can you separate yourself from your daughter (or father from son)?

You are in your daughter and your daughter is in you
You and your daughter are one

If your Jane's friends ask if they can borrow your, I dont know, tv remote because she lives under the same house as you, and she says "Why ask me? The only one who can give the remote is the owner of the house."

And then Jane tells her friends she will be back to play with them when you give her permission after doing her homework. They ask her "when. When will you play with us again Jane".

And Jane says, "only my father knows the day and hour"

The word usage can make it sound like you are your daughter but no where in this post did I say that. Likewise in scripture.

I had to use your daughter to kind of let you see where nontrinitarians come from. If your daughter's name is Jane, total coinsedence.

Edit add one more thing...

If you I will say took a permenant vacation millions of miles away from your daughter and people come up to your daughter and say "Jane, you look Just like your father"

And she says

"Yep, if you see me, you definitely seen my father" with a big smile.

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> yeah
if you really hear my words by not putting your mouth unto your ears then you all probably heard what my father said
and
if you really see my works without using your hand in your naked eyes then you all probably seen the work of my father in me

In my Father's house are many dwelling places. If it weren't so, I would have told you; for I goa to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will receive you to myself; that where I am, you may be there also.

. ... just for a thought
if we may say so ... .


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[Kenny]

I think you should take into account that people wrote the Bible and it has been translated multiple times so you cannot be sure the line is correct in the first place. Secondly, Jesus was not God (imo) he was a soul that came to teach us live in love.

Actually, it is because it has been translated multiple times in hundreds of languages that one can be sure the lines are correct. If translations were incorrect, as it branches out over time your would have huge discrepancies between translations.

There is none.

For Christ believers, Jesus was/is Emanuel, God with us, the Lamb of God that dealt with the sins of mankind to make them righteous in the sight of God.

 

[savagewind]

Actually, it is because it has been translated multiple times in hundreds of languages that one can be sure the lines are correct. If translations were incorrect, as it branches out over time your would have huge discrepancies between translations.

This is not an accurate conclusion based it on what is also written. It is written that the whole world in evil lies. I am not aware of any scripture which assumes evil is plural. If you were right, it would mean there are NOT many evils against God's will be done. There seems to be just one.

I realize that it is human nature to accept the popular view. In the translation of the Bible, that is what was done imo.

Also. people can be lazy and if they are unsure some will not explore. They will take what they have and run with it. Some people make OTHER people run with it. That is wrong.

 

[Kenny]

This is not an accurate conclusion based it on what is also written. It is written that the whole world in evil lies. I am not aware of any scripture which assumes evil is plural. If you were right, it would mean there are NOT many evils against God's will be done. There seems to be just one.

I realize that it is human nature to accept the popular view. In the translation of the Bible, that is what was done imo.

Also. people can be lazy and if they are unsure some will not explore. They will take what they have and run with it. Some people make OTHER people run with it. That is wrong.

could you please quote the scripture reference to be able to study it? Also, how is evil plural in your statement?

 

[savagewind]

I try to live by this. When in doubt, don't. Someone takes up the Bible to share it. Something in it sounds doubtful, then don't believe it, I say. Certainly don't share it. If they wanted to copy the Bible and came to a place that could not be understood at the time, it should not have been translated. The original should have remained for someone else who was qualified to do it. Then the weeds would be few. Now they are choking the World. Some people believe the World should be choked. I don't.

Who really is the faithful and discreet slave who gives food in season? Food is the accurate Word Of God. See? IN SEASON! Only when a word is made to be understood by The Holy Spirit would it be copied and shared imho.