If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[savagewind]

could you please quote the scripture reference to be able to study it? Also, how is evil plural in your statement?

Evil is not plural imo. Because it isn't plural it affects everyone the same way.
YOUR premise was because the words mean the same from Bible to Bible, they must be right words. But evil is singular so that theory is balderdash.

Air is something everyone breaths. It is for the most part just one thing. Ephesians 2:2

Everyone who copies and translates the Bible breath the same air.

 

[savagewind]

@KenS What I mean is singular is the opposite of plural. The Bible speaks of a singular evil, not a plural one.
If evil is singular, like the Bible teaches, then everyone affected by it will behave similarly.
If they didn't behave similarly, like you say they did but by translating the Bible, then evil could be considered more than one kind.

The Holy Spirit is also one so some people say that EVERYONE who touched the Bible to propagate it was under the power of That One. Do you believe that is possible? I don't.

 

[Kenny]

Evil is not plural imo. Because it isn't plural it affects everyone the same way.
YOUR premise was because the words mean the same from Bible to Bible, they must be right words. But evil is singular so that theory is balderdash.

Air is something everyone breaths. It is for the most part just one thing. Ephesians 2:2

Everyone who copied and translated the Bible breath the same air.

1) Evil can be plural. "The evils of this world"
2) A story, if changed over time, will have different versions with gaping differences. The premise is was stated that since it was translated so many times, that there must be differences from the original. The premise is still false. If one version went in one direction and another went in a different direction and each was translated further, you eventually would have two completely different versions...

That premise is wrong and my statement holds. There are only minor differences and all can be determined and explained because there are so many versions.

Eph. 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

How are you applying this reference?

 

[savagewind]

1) Evil can be plural. "The evils of this world"
2) A story, if changed over time, will have different versions with gaping differences. The premise is was stated that since it was translated so many times, that there must be differences from the original. The premise is still false. If one version went in one direction and another went in a different direction and each was translated further, you eventually would have two completely different versions...

That premise is wrong and my statement holds. There are only minor differences and all can be determined and explained because there are so many versions.

Can you supply scripture for "the evils of this world", please?

 

[savagewind]

2) A story, if changed over time, will have different versions with gaping differences. The premise is was stated that since it was translated so many times, that there must be differences from the original. The premise is still false. If one version went in one direction and another went in a different direction and each was translated further, you eventually would have two completely different versions...
.

Except that they BELIEVED the prior version was finished under The Holy Spirit or the copyist was aware that his master believed it. Believing does not make something true.
There actually ARE very different versions of it. But that I am not certain about, as I have never read one.

 

[Kenny]

Can you supply scripture for "the evils of this world", please?

Gen 42:36 Their father Jacob said: You have made me to be without children: Joseph is not living, Simeon is kept in bonds, and Benjamin you will take away: all these evils are fallen upon me.

 

[Kenny]

Except that they BELIEVED the prior version was finished under The Holy Spirit. Believing does not make something true.
There actually ARE very different versions of it. But that I am not certain about, as I have never read one.

Yes... there are varying opinions on its veracity with each supplying there own reasons for their position.

I am of the camp that it has veracity.

 

[savagewind]

Gen 42:36 Their father Jacob said: You have made me to be without children: Joseph is not living, Simeon is kept in bonds, and Benjamin you will take away: all these evils are fallen upon me.

See the original? http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/42-36.htm

 

[savagewind]

Yes... there are varying opinions on its veracity with each supplying there own reasons for their position.

I am of the camp that it has veracity.

I agree it has veracity. Why would I be arguing it if I thought it didn't?

 

[savagewind]

1 Timothy 6:10 looks singular to me. I do not know Greek.

Don't look at the translation. See the original. Click on τῶν and κακῶν

It looks like it says, "a root indeed of all the evil is the love of money".

The same form of the word is used singularly HERE: http://biblehub.com/greek/kako_n_2556.htm

 

[savagewind]

I am not saying there are not evils (plural) in the World. I am saying I am not aware that the Bible teaches it that way. Can I have another scripture, please? @KenS

 

[Kenny]

1 Timothy 6:10 looks singular to me. I do not know Greek.

Don't look at the translation. See the original. Click on τῶν and κακῶν

It looks like it says, "a root indeed of all the evil is the love of money".

The same form of the word is used singularly HERE: http://biblehub.com/greek/kako_n_2556.htm

I'm not sure if we are talking about two different things and yet thinking we are speaking about one.

I agree it can have singularity
As noted by my scripture reference, it can have a plurality.

It would depend on when it is used and how it is used.

I am not saying there are not evils (plural) in the World. I am saying I am not aware that the Bible teaches it that way. Can I have another scripture, please?

Mark 7:23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

 

[Kenny]

See the original? http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/42-36.htm

evil:

rah
Definition
adj

1. bad, evil
   1. bad, disagreeable, malignant
   2. bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
   3. evil, displeasing
   4. bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
   5. bad (of value)
   6. worse than, worst (comparison)
   7. sad, unhappy
   8. evil (hurtful)
   9. bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
   10. bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
       1. in general, of persons, of thoughts
       2. deeds, actions n m
2. evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
   1. evil, distress, adversity
   2. evil, injury, wrong
   3. evil (ethical) n f
3. evil, misery, distress, injury
   1. evil, misery, distress
   2. evil, injury, wrong
   3. evil (ethical)
   
   
   Just depends on how it is used.

 

[Kenny]

I agree it has veracity. Why would I be arguing it if I thought it didn't?

Don't understand... if we agree... why are we arguing?

 

[savagewind]

Mark 7:23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Thank you. Evils was proceeded by a list of different things, so of course, it is assumed right that it is plural.

Interesting that scripture can support my idea that the wrong Bible can do damage.
I am aware of the possibility that the Bible might have been explained at times under the influence of covetousness, deceit, envy, pride, foolishness, and others thus it might be written this way:

For it is from within, out of a person's heart, that evil thoughts come--sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile Humankind.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Nice rebuttal, but in many cultures, when you are talking to the child you are talking to the whole family.

That may be true, but Philip said, "show us the Father", Jesus said, "I've been here all this time and you still don't know me Philip?" He didn't say, us or Him.

 

[savagewind]

Don't understand... if we agree... why are we arguing?

YOU say there is nothing in it to mislead, that it is perfect. I say there are scriptures which mislead IN IT.
THEY say God does not allow it to mislead. I say that would be magic and actually magic is something which the book warns about.

 

[savagewind]

evil:

rah
Definition
adj

1. bad, evil
   1. bad, disagreeable, malignant
   2. bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
   3. evil, displeasing
   4. bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
   5. bad (of value)
   6. worse than, worst (comparison)
   7. sad, unhappy
   8. evil (hurtful)
   9. bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
   10. bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
       1. in general, of persons, of thoughts
       2. deeds, actions n m
2. evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
   1. evil, distress, adversity
   2. evil, injury, wrong
   3. evil (ethical) n f
3. evil, misery, distress, injury
   1. evil, misery, distress
   2. evil, injury, wrong
   3. evil (ethical)
   
   
   Just depends on how it is used.

As I recall, evil is not mentioned in that scripture in the original. What did I miss?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

You know, if adherents to the trinity want to 'latch on' to particular statements at the expense of the context,

You mean like the wt does, claiming that our physical death pays for our sins,

Romans 6:7 (ESV Strong's) 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.

You 'latch on' to that statement at the expense of the context to claim when you die, you have paid for your sin.

*** bh p. 214 par. 3 Judgment Day—What Is It? ***
According to the apostle John’s vision, “scrolls were opened,” and “the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That may be true, but Philip said, "show us the Father", Jesus said, "I've been here all this time and you still don't know me Philip?" He didn't say, us or Him.

I understand that, thats why I used the Jane example so you go beyond the verses a bit and critically think about context not just content, and to focus on prepositions and pronouns are important too.

It is true that in some cultures, when you are talking to the child you are refering to that child's family. Its a fact.

Unless you ask jesus directly if he was talking about himself, and he said "yes, I am saying I am god", then all you have is him being indirect with his answers. When, who was it, either the Jews or Herald ask jesus if he was the son of god and instead of saying "yes or no" he answered indirectly.

Religious text are indirect for a reason. You are learning something from god himself but as soon as you make a human god he is no longer god, at least not the god of the jews.
--

Another thing, though. Jesus has shown the father through his "words and actions". All of jesus words and actions are From his father. So Phillip must not have "got it" until by jesus being indirect..so he asks, and jesus is indirect again.

Maybe jesus wants followers to use critical thinking skills so they know the difference between going Through the son to get to the father and going To he son as if he IS the father.

The scripture doesnt say the latter.

Jesus is god is not in scripture. What is not there doesnt mean itz true oe false. Personaly, Im just saying its okay to read into the text jesus is god. I just sometimes like to hear a trinitarian say

Yes, we know it is not "literally"in the bible...but no one has. Since its not, why not say it?

Maybe thats the fig leaf I dont know. I always wanted to understtand this more but i get a lot of drop off chats so if itz a repet, thats why. Also, kinda want to learn a new perspective since i read all the verses supporting both sides.