Augustus
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I'd also be looking for a third option, Hell sounds awful but I'd go crackers in Heaven
Why? Almost everyone will be in the new heaven as they would worship too.
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I'd also be looking for a third option, Hell sounds awful but I'd go crackers in Heaven
I'd be suicidal with all the righteous goody-goodies who are in Heaven.Why? Almost everyone will be in the new heaven as they would worship too.
I'd be suicidal with all the righteous goody-goodies who are in Heaven.
My only hope would be that there are people like me who have tricked their way in.
Can you get thrown out of heaven once you are in?
But it is the 'worshiping' I find offensive and I object to it.It's easy enough to ignore people you don't want to hang around with. It's not like this world is only full of great people.
You said god had revealed himself to the world though. Anyone with an iota of sense will be going to heaven so you will be surrounded by families and friends.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure an omnipotent god can design a heaven that all his followers like.
But it is the 'worshiping' I find offensive and I object to it.
I do not have to revise my beliefs!!You're still thinking as an atheist and a secular humanist rather than a scriptural monotheist with the natural implications of this. You'd really have to revise many of your existing beliefs if you value reason and logic.
You'd be smart enough to know there is no point in worrying over things that cannot possibly be any other way as we are very adaptable to new realities. Within a short while it wouldn't give you any real grief, and we have lots of natural cognitive tricks that help us to deal with things like this too. A bit of Stoic philosophy could help also.
Also, you'd quickly get used to it if you find eternal torment a bit more objectionable.
So you're telling me you worship because someone said that God told him to tell you to?
I'd also be looking for a third option, Hell sounds awful but I'd go crackers in Heaven
Why? Almost everyone will be in the new heaven as they would worship too.
But it is the 'worshiping' I find offensive and I object to it.
Grief, not more bible quotes!!!!! I'm an atheist, I will say it again, would you be impressed with Richard Dawkins quotes?I am wondering if you 'object to truth' because Jesus likened worship to truth at John 4:23-24.
Since Jesus taught that Scripture is ' religious truth ' at John 17:17 then we give God worship by religious truth.
Also, Jesus mentioned to worship in spirit. That would mean Not by sighted things or objects but spiritual.
As a per rally is designed to create school spirit, or a lively horse is called high spirited, so our worship would be an active thriving worship of obeying God's commands such as keeping the Golden Rule and obeying Jesus' NEW commandment of John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has.
Grief, not more bible quotes!!!!! I'm an atheist, I will say it again, would you be impressed with Richard Dawkins quotes?
Of course I don't object to truth, but religious truth is an oxymoron.
Same.As an atheist I think this is highly unlikely but for this thought experiment, let's assume that a god has revealed themselves to the world.
Now would you worship it?
I couldn't bring myself to do so; I'd be happy to say thanks for what I have but regularly get on my knees and give thanks, NO!
Thoughts.
I do not have to revise my beliefs!!
Ever heard of principles?
I can think of no worse eternal torment than Mother Teresa, The Popes, vicars, imans, rabbis - aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!
Please do not treat me as an idiot and talk down town to me. I do have a mind of my own and am not stupid.
You are so wrong. Give me evidence and I'll change my mind. Science is NOT an ideology, it follows the evidence. It is not that long ago that plate tectonics was discovered, before then it was assumed that continents were 'fixed'. Now it is accepted science.So if you were proven to be objectively wrong about your entire worldview you wouldn't revise it in line with new evidence?
You'd be infinitely worse than a flat-earther YEC, yet claim to follow an ideology that values science and reason?
Some dissonance here.
You believe my family and friends will be in heaven; not sure what you base that assumption on, 99% of them are atheists.You do seem to treat this more like having a new boss you don't like rather than a fundamental change in the objective nature of reality which has incontrovertibly invalidated almost everything you believed about the world though.
1. Your family and friends will be in new heaven
2. Being perpetually boiled in lava really is far, far worse.
AcceptedSorry wasn't meant in that way.
Was meant a comment about how we adapt as a species, not specifically you. Almost everyone would adapt pretty quickly so almost certainly this involves you or any other given person in the world.
You are so wrong. Give me evidence and I'll change my mind. Science is NOT an ideology, it follows the evidence. It is not that long ago that plate tectonics was discovered, before then it was assumed that continents were 'fixed'. Now it is accepted science.
What would it take for you to change your mind? I bet you don't answer that in a positive way.
What would it take for you to change your mind? I bet you don't answer that in a positive way.
You believe my family and friends will be in heaven; not sure what you base that assumption on, 99% of them are atheists.
Once again threats of pain seem to be the only way theists can get atheists to obey their crazy ideology. If threats are violence is the best you have you are like Trump, a loser.
Once again threats of pain seem to be the only way theists can get atheists to obey their crazy ideology. If threats are violence is the best you have you are like Trump, a loser.
Well, Humanism is an outlook which focuses on humans rather than the supernatural; so yes it is an ideology.Humanism is an ideology, and one that would have been proved objectively wrong once god revealed himself to the world. Secular Humanism would be flat earth wrong in this situation.
Accepted science would be that god exists and hell exists and eternal torment exists and that man made ideologies are objectively false (and harmful).
As I said, you don't seem to be following through on the full implications of this fictitious scenario. .
I knew you would duck the question. I'll ask it again and try to make it clearer.I had to change my mind to do your scenario. It took the overwhelming evidence of god's objective existence leading to revision of existing my beliefs (hypothetically of course)..
In your scenario, they are now all theists.
The context is that god has revealed himself and has told you what you need to do to get into heaven. I'm confident that most of your family and friends are not stupid and, like other people, would adapt to the new reality of an objectively existing god sufficiently to get into heaven..
In this completely imaginary scenario, we are no longer atheists and it is not a crazy ideology, it is objective reality. Secular Humanism would be the crazy ideology as it would be claiming humans know better than the omnipotent creator of the universe who designed everything according to his divine plan.
God would be the one threatening violence, not me. I'd find it highly persuasive though, as would almost everyone in the world.
Well, Humanism is an outlook which focuses on humans rather than the supernatural; so yes it is an ideology.
Of course if god revealed himself it would need to be re thought.
You really are stating the obvious - if Mohammed revealed himself, Christians would have a problem.
I would argue that religion is a man-made concept - ok if the big G turned up, I'd reassess that. But we have been waiting a rather long time.
I knew you would duck the question. I'll ask it again and try to make it clearer.
What would it take for you to abandon your religious beliefs?
You obviously know them better than I do, because a good few of them definitely wouldn't.
ut why if he is so powerful does he need to threaten violence. Can't he do some sort of Jedi Mind Trick?
The Muslim idea which presupposes the innate disposition to know God exists is supported by psychological, sociological and anthropological evidence.
What's worthy to give reverence to for me are invincible attributes such as goodness, peace, kindness, forgiveness, unconditional love, patience, honesty, truth, things that are just and right, etc.