If, it was proven beyond all doubt that a god existed. Would you worship it?

[Augustus]

I'd also be looking for a third option, Hell sounds awful but I'd go crackers in Heaven

Why? Almost everyone will be in the new heaven as they would worship too.

 

[Altfish]

Why? Almost everyone will be in the new heaven as they would worship too.

I'd be suicidal with all the righteous goody-goodies who are in Heaven.
My only hope would be that there are people like me who have tricked their way in.
Can you get thrown out of heaven once you are in?

 

[Augustus]

I'd be suicidal with all the righteous goody-goodies who are in Heaven.
My only hope would be that there are people like me who have tricked their way in.
Can you get thrown out of heaven once you are in?

It's easy enough to ignore people you don't want to hang around with. It's not like this world is only full of great people.

You said god had revealed himself to the world though. Anyone with an iota of sense will be going to heaven so you will be surrounded by families and friends.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure an omnipotent god can design a heaven that all his followers like.

 

[Altfish]

It's easy enough to ignore people you don't want to hang around with. It's not like this world is only full of great people.

You said god had revealed himself to the world though. Anyone with an iota of sense will be going to heaven so you will be surrounded by families and friends.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure an omnipotent god can design a heaven that all his followers like.

But it is the 'worshiping' I find offensive and I object to it.

 

[Augustus]

But it is the 'worshiping' I find offensive and I object to it.

You're still thinking as an atheist and a secular humanist rather than a scriptural monotheist with the natural implications of this. You'd really have to revise many of your existing beliefs if you value reason and logic.

You'd be smart enough to know there is no point in worrying over things that cannot possibly be any other way as we are very adaptable to new realities. Within a short while it wouldn't give you any real grief, and we have lots of natural cognitive tricks that help us to deal with things like this too. A bit of Stoic philosophy could help also.

Also, you'd quickly get used to it if you find eternal torment a bit more objectionable.

 

[Altfish]

You're still thinking as an atheist and a secular humanist rather than a scriptural monotheist with the natural implications of this. You'd really have to revise many of your existing beliefs if you value reason and logic.

You'd be smart enough to know there is no point in worrying over things that cannot possibly be any other way as we are very adaptable to new realities. Within a short while it wouldn't give you any real grief, and we have lots of natural cognitive tricks that help us to deal with things like this too. A bit of Stoic philosophy could help also.

Also, you'd quickly get used to it if you find eternal torment a bit more objectionable.

I do not have to revise my beliefs!!
Ever heard of principles?
I can think of no worse eternal torment than Mother Teresa, The Popes, vicars, imans, rabbis - aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!
Mind you most of those are hypocritical so they may not get in.

Please do not treat me as an idiot and talk down town to me. I do have a mind of my own and am not stupid.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So you're telling me you worship because someone said that God told him to tell you to?

Same as the people of Acts of the Apostles 17:11 searched or researched the Scriptures each day to see whether what was written there was so, thus I find we need to make a search or study of Scripture to see if what Jesus taught is so. Since the Bible is Not written in ABC order as a dictionary is then we need to examine the Bible by subject or topic arrangement seeing how the corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages show the internal harmony among its many writers.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'd also be looking for a third option, Hell sounds awful but I'd go crackers in Heaven

Sure the religious-myth hell teaching of conscious burning forever does sound awful, but thankfully the Bible's hell is temporary, and is simply the stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead until resurrected out of biblical hell.

KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as hellfire.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit for destroying things.
So Gehenna is a fitting word for as Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be 'destroyed 'forever ( Not burnt )

In Scripture I find at Acts of the Apostles 2:27 that righteous 'dead Jesus' is in hell until his God resurrected him.
Since Jesus taught sleep (Not pain) in death at John 11:11-14 before he resurrected his 4-day dead friend back to healthy physical life on Earth, then death is but a temporary sleep until Resurrection Day meaning Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth when ' enemy death ' will be No more as per 1 Corinthians 15:26.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why? Almost everyone will be in the new heaven as they would worship too.

I find besides a new heaven please notice a new earth as found at 2 Peter 3:13.
Righteousness will dwell in that new earth. Not a new planet but a new righteous society on earth.

Sure heaven is God's home, but in Scripture heaven can stand for the mid-heavens where the birds fly, and can stand for governmental heavens as the governments are above in ruling over people.
Please also notice at 2 Peter 3:5 that both the heavens and earth of OLD are mentioned.
Our literal heavens above us was Not destroyed in the Flood but ' washed clean ' so to speak.
Then at 2 Peter 3:7 are the heavens and earth of NOW (meaning from Noah's day to our day )
So, the NEW heavens and NEW earth is also referring to a cleansed earth and governmental heavens over us.
The NEW earth will be free of any who would want to bring ruin to our earth as per Revelation 11:18 B.
The NEW heavens will be governed by Jesus as King of God's Kingdom government of Daniel 2:44 for a thousand years, thus making our earth cleansed of the wicked as per Psalms 92:7; Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But it is the 'worshiping' I find offensive and I object to it.

I am wondering if you 'object to truth' because Jesus likened worship to truth at John 4:23-24.
Since Jesus taught that Scripture is ' religious truth ' at John 17:17 then we give God worship by religious truth.
Also, Jesus mentioned to worship in spirit. That would mean Not by sighted things or objects but spiritual.
As a per rally is designed to create school spirit, or a lively horse is called high spirited, so our worship would be an active thriving worship of obeying God's commands such as keeping the Golden Rule and obeying Jesus' NEW commandment of John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has.

 

[Altfish]

I am wondering if you 'object to truth' because Jesus likened worship to truth at John 4:23-24.
Since Jesus taught that Scripture is ' religious truth ' at John 17:17 then we give God worship by religious truth.
Also, Jesus mentioned to worship in spirit. That would mean Not by sighted things or objects but spiritual.
As a per rally is designed to create school spirit, or a lively horse is called high spirited, so our worship would be an active thriving worship of obeying God's commands such as keeping the Golden Rule and obeying Jesus' NEW commandment of John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has.

Grief, not more bible quotes!!!!! I'm an atheist, I will say it again, would you be impressed with Richard Dawkins quotes?
Of course I don't object to truth, but religious truth is an oxymoron.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Grief, not more bible quotes!!!!! I'm an atheist, I will say it again, would you be impressed with Richard Dawkins quotes?
Of course I don't object to truth, but religious truth is an oxymoron.

I did Not "quote" but merely made reference to its location.
Sure, feel free to quote Dawkins, Hawkings, etc.
I knew an atheist back in the 60's who was a Bible reader (He was reading the Bible for the second time around )
He could see how corrupted the clergy was. I told him that should Not surprise us because the clergy was corrupt in Jesus' day. He took me to the tour the United Nations and wanted me to explain the Isaiah Wall at the U.N. Plaza.
I never heard of Isaiah 2:4 at that time, so ( because of this atheist ) I went and bought a Bible to read it for myself.
I've been reading it ever since. More I read the more confidence I have that only Jesus, as king of God's kingdom government, is the only one who can establish lasting Peace on Earth.
People often tell me technology is the answer to man's problems, but I find technology is a two-edged sword.
For example: atomic energy and atomic bomb. Technology is Not the solution but part of the problem.

 

[jonathan180iq]

As an atheist I think this is highly unlikely but for this thought experiment, let's assume that a god has revealed themselves to the world.

Now would you worship it?

I couldn't bring myself to do so; I'd be happy to say thanks for what I have but regularly get on my knees and give thanks, NO!

Thoughts.

Same.
I can be reverent without nearing anything close to worship...

 

[Augustus]

I do not have to revise my beliefs!!
Ever heard of principles?

So if you were proven to be objectively wrong about your entire worldview you wouldn't revise it in line with new evidence?

You'd be infinitely worse than a flat-earther YEC, yet claim to follow an ideology that values science and reason?

Some dissonance here.

You do seem to treat this more like having a new boss you don't like rather than a fundamental change in the objective nature of reality which has incontrovertibly invalidated almost everything you believed about the world though.

I can think of no worse eternal torment than Mother Teresa, The Popes, vicars, imans, rabbis - aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!

1. Your family and friends will be in new heaven
2. Being perpetually boiled in lava really is far, far worse.

Please do not treat me as an idiot and talk down town to me. I do have a mind of my own and am not stupid.

Sorry wasn't meant in that way.

Was meant a comment about how we adapt as a species, not specifically you. Almost everyone would adapt pretty quickly so almost certainly this involves you or any other given person in the world.

 

[Altfish]

So if you were proven to be objectively wrong about your entire worldview you wouldn't revise it in line with new evidence?

You'd be infinitely worse than a flat-earther YEC, yet claim to follow an ideology that values science and reason?

Some dissonance here.

You are so wrong. Give me evidence and I'll change my mind. Science is NOT an ideology, it follows the evidence. It is not that long ago that plate tectonics was discovered, before then it was assumed that continents were 'fixed'. Now it is accepted science.
What would it take for you to change your mind? I bet you don't answer that in a positive way.

You do seem to treat this more like having a new boss you don't like rather than a fundamental change in the objective nature of reality which has incontrovertibly invalidated almost everything you believed about the world though.

1. Your family and friends will be in new heaven
2. Being perpetually boiled in lava really is far, far worse.

You believe my family and friends will be in heaven; not sure what you base that assumption on, 99% of them are atheists.
Once again threats of pain seem to be the only way theists can get atheists to obey their crazy ideology. If threats are violence is the best you have you are like Trump, a loser.

Sorry wasn't meant in that way.

Was meant a comment about how we adapt as a species, not specifically you. Almost everyone would adapt pretty quickly so almost certainly this involves you or any other given person in the world.

Accepted

 

[Augustus]

You are so wrong. Give me evidence and I'll change my mind. Science is NOT an ideology, it follows the evidence. It is not that long ago that plate tectonics was discovered, before then it was assumed that continents were 'fixed'. Now it is accepted science.
What would it take for you to change your mind? I bet you don't answer that in a positive way.

Humanism is an ideology, and one that would have been proved objectively wrong once god revealed himself to the world. Secular Humanism would be flat earth wrong in this situation.

Accepted science would be that god exists and hell exists and eternal torment exists and that man made ideologies are objectively false (and harmful).

As I said, you don't seem to be following through on the full implications of this fictitious scenario.

What would it take for you to change your mind? I bet you don't answer that in a positive way.

I had to change my mind to do your scenario. It took the overwhelming evidence of god's objective existence leading to revision of existing my beliefs (hypothetically of course).

You believe my family and friends will be in heaven; not sure what you base that assumption on, 99% of them are atheists.
Once again threats of pain seem to be the only way theists can get atheists to obey their crazy ideology. If threats are violence is the best you have you are like Trump, a loser.

In your scenario, they are now all theists.

The context is that god has revealed himself and has told you what you need to do to get into heaven. I'm confident that most of your family and friends are not stupid and, like other people, would adapt to the new reality of an objectively existing god sufficiently to get into heaven.

Once again threats of pain seem to be the only way theists can get atheists to obey their crazy ideology. If threats are violence is the best you have you are like Trump, a loser.

In this completely imaginary scenario, we are no longer atheists and it is not a crazy ideology, it is objective reality. Secular Humanism would be the crazy ideology as it would be claiming humans know better than the omnipotent creator of the universe who designed everything according to his divine plan.

God would be the one threatening violence, not me. I'd find it highly persuasive though, as would almost everyone in the world.

 

[Altfish]

Humanism is an ideology, and one that would have been proved objectively wrong once god revealed himself to the world. Secular Humanism would be flat earth wrong in this situation.

Accepted science would be that god exists and hell exists and eternal torment exists and that man made ideologies are objectively false (and harmful).

As I said, you don't seem to be following through on the full implications of this fictitious scenario. .

Well, Humanism is an outlook which focuses on humans rather than the supernatural; so yes it is an ideology.
Of course if god revealed himself it would need to be re thought.
You really are stating the obvious - if Mohammed revealed himself, Christians would have a problem.
I would argue that religion is a man-made concept - ok if the big G turned up, I'd reassess that. But we have been waiting a rather long time.

I had to change my mind to do your scenario. It took the overwhelming evidence of god's objective existence leading to revision of existing my beliefs (hypothetically of course)..

I knew you would duck the question. I'll ask it again and try to make it clearer.

What would it take for you to abandon your religious beliefs?

In your scenario, they are now all theists.

The context is that god has revealed himself and has told you what you need to do to get into heaven. I'm confident that most of your family and friends are not stupid and, like other people, would adapt to the new reality of an objectively existing god sufficiently to get into heaven..

You obviously know them better than I do, because a good few of them definitely wouldn't.

In this completely imaginary scenario, we are no longer atheists and it is not a crazy ideology, it is objective reality. Secular Humanism would be the crazy ideology as it would be claiming humans know better than the omnipotent creator of the universe who designed everything according to his divine plan.

God would be the one threatening violence, not me. I'd find it highly persuasive though, as would almost everyone in the world.

But why if he is so powerful does he need to threaten violence. Can't he do some sort of Jedi Mind Trick?

 

[Augustus]

Well, Humanism is an outlook which focuses on humans rather than the supernatural; so yes it is an ideology.
Of course if god revealed himself it would need to be re thought.
You really are stating the obvious - if Mohammed revealed himself, Christians would have a problem.
I would argue that religion is a man-made concept - ok if the big G turned up, I'd reassess that. But we have been waiting a rather long time.

It's your thread about 'what if god revealed himself?' Thus your need to reevaluate.

I knew you would duck the question. I'll ask it again and try to make it clearer.

What would it take for you to abandon your religious beliefs?

I answered it. I'm not religious. It says so on my profile - 'religion: none'.

I'm imagining based on your scenario that you created to discuss this hypothetical situation.

You obviously know them better than I do, because a good few of them definitely wouldn't.

If you believe that almost everyone would quickly adapt to the new reality, this includes your family.

If you think they would sing a song to avoid torture by a psychopath then you can assume that they would do so to avoid torture for eternity by a god and a hell that they truly believed existed (in this scenario, not IRL).

It's that simple.

ut why if he is so powerful does he need to threaten violence. Can't he do some sort of Jedi Mind Trick?

My first post was contingent on the point that he did threaten violence. It is a very hypothetical discussion after all.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

The Muslim idea which presupposes the innate disposition to know God exists is supported by psychological, sociological and anthropological evidence.

Let me stop you right there.

Even it if is true that we are somehow predisposed to believe in god, that does not mean that god exists.

Even if something is "natural" that does not mean that it is correct or moral or even justified. Mysgeny and rape are natural.

Even if something is "unnatural" that does not mean that it is wrong.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

What's worthy to give reverence to for me are invincible attributes such as goodness, peace, kindness, forgiveness, unconditional love, patience, honesty, truth, things that are just and right, etc.

We can all have these invincible attributes without God belief.