I'd Like an Argument, Please

[Sonofason]

Well there's a distinction between fundamental beliefs (such as in the existence of a god) and a religion, which encompass a collection of beliefs, principles and practices.

I don't believe (hah!) we can control our fundamental beliefs. That's a function of how our brains process the combination of relevant information and experiences, which is involuntarily. We have some control of the information and experiences but no direct control over the conclusions out brain generates from them.

Choosing religion is therefore more complicated. You can't choose whether you believe all of the concepts and principles of a particular faith (and I'm not convinced anyone can actually agree on everything their religion is based on, which is why they have so many internal disputes and schisms). If you find a religion that fits close enough to your beliefs for you to accept, you can choose to follow it's rules and practices (and also how closely you follow them). I'm just questioning the practical difference taking that step would actually make to your life.

I'm with you Joe, we have little control with regard to the conclusions our brains generate from information and experiences. And this is why I believe it is important for Christians to withdrawal from the "world", and surround themselves with other Christians. You listen to enough garbage, and soon you will believe it. Subject yourself to the gross perversions of the world, and you will likely become perverse. Hang out with thieves and whore-mongers and soon you will be one. My grandfather once told me something, I never needed to hear a second time, "you're no better than the friends you keep." And there is another one, "you are what you eat."

 

[JoStories]

I believe what I have seen in Buddhist debates is that some believe in rebirth but not in the Hindu reincarnation. I believe both are in error.

Why do you believe both are in error? Simply based on a book? That is your choice but please understand that many would strongly disagree with you, including me. And also keep in mind that there are those who would argue that the Bible contains hints at reincarnation as well.

 

[JoStories]

I believe considering that all churches are in error one could find the one with the least objectionable falsehoods or one can simply accommodate oneself to the errors and let Jesus deal with His church as He wishes.

Jesus never established a church. The people of Rome did to try to convert all Pagans to what Constantine wanted, or rather, his mother. And Paulian dogma was and is Paulian dogma and has little to do bearing on what Christ taught and is often in opposition to what Christ taught.

 

[JoStories]

Remember you are talking about religion, a creation of men. To be a Christian, or follower of Christ that is not overly influenced by the opinions and traditions of men is probably not a terrible thing. For a Christian, concerns ought not be so much about what other people think, but what did Christ think.

If you are simply following Christ, that is one thing but most also follow Paul and Paul is very much often in opposition to what Christ taught. I love the Sermon on the Mount but Paul sets the stage in opposition to that.

 

[JoStories]

Yes, in spite of theists, the atheist claims that atheism is not a religion. IN truth, it is.

I strongly disagree with you. There are no rules with regard to Atheism. One simply does not believe in any gods. Period. How is that a religion?

 

[Muffled]

Why do you believe both are in error? Simply based on a book? That is your choice but please understand that many would strongly disagree with you, including me. And also keep in mind that there are those who would argue that the Bible contains hints at reincarnation as well.

I believe from what I have read that both have a material explanation but that is not how the Bible puts it. The Bible has an inspiration ie the spirit enters the body at conception.

I believe the Spiritists say that the spirit gets to choose its incarnation but I believe that is only half true. I believe a spirit can choose its incarnation if God permits otherwise it will be God's judgement that decides what incarnation is best.

 

[Milton Platt]

Some do, others do not. I believe in reincarnation because I have experienced my past lives through memory and dreams. No, I will not try to convince others of that so don't ask please. But I do agree that some Buddhists do not believe in that.

If you are unable or unwilling to provide convincing evidence to support a claim, why make the claim??? Just saying.....

 

[Kawlija]

Because one can try to follow Jesus instead of focusing entirely on denominations conjured up by others, especially those in the last few hundred years or so.


Amen!

How can anyone who thinks themselves rational believe that some guy who has been dead for 2016 years is going come back and save them from themselves.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Yes, in spite of theists, the atheist claims that atheism is not a religion. IN truth, it is.

Clearly define "religion" then we can go from there. Because atheism certainly does not fit the common dictionary definition of "religion" so I'm quite curious as to what definition of "religion" you are using to come to this conclusion that atheism is a "religion".

 

[Kawlija]

It seems to me that belief in an afterlife does not require a religion, nor does religion require a belief in an afterlife.

Well I think the basic of all religions is three simple question. Where did I come from? How should I behave while I am alive? Where do I go when I die?
The belief in a heaven gives solace to some about where they go after death so I think it is a necessary part of a religion but I doubt think you necessarily have to believe in a religion to belief in a heaven, place of paradise or an Elfame of some sort..

 

[Quintessence]

Well I think the basic of all religions is three simple question. Where did I come from? How should I behave while I am alive? Where do I go when I die?

A Christian-centric culture might assume such questions to be basic to all religions. They are not. But that's neither here nor there, considering this response was to a rather old post.

 

[Demonslayer]

Where did I come from?

Your mother.

How should I behave while I am alive?

Don't be a dick.

Where do I go when I die?

Casket or Urn, your choice.

 

[Sonofason]

Clearly define "religion" then we can go from there. Because atheism certainly does not fit the common dictionary definition of "religion" so I'm quite curious as to what definition of "religion" you are using to come to this conclusion that atheism is a "religion".

Religion is often quite simply a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith. It is something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience.
Religion is a cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. It is something of overwhelming importance to a person: football is his religion.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/religion

Atheists have great faith in their belief that there is no God. They have no evidence whatsoever to reach that conclusion, yet they believe it ardently, and spend a great amount of their time trying to convince other people that their beliefs are justified. They are wrong.

 

[Sonofason]

If you are simply following Christ, that is one thing but most also follow Paul and Paul is very much often in opposition to what Christ taught. I love the Sermon on the Mount but Paul sets the stage in opposition to that.

I don't know, you may be right...what are some examples where Paul is in opposition to what Christ taught. Jesus said a great deal more than what He said during His sermon on the mount.

 

[serp777]

So I'm a Christian without a religion, as I'm unsure what denomination gets it. Thought it might be fun and I might learn something to debate some topic regarding Christianity, such as why one denomination is better than another, or why some other religion is better than Christianity in general, or why atheism why atheism is better than any religion. I'm easy. Suggest a topic of discussion.

[emoji4]

How about none of the above? It seems to me that if you're going to believe in God then you should just be a deist. Deism assumes that there is a God but doesn't claim to know the characteristics of God or his thoughts or his likes or his moral landscape. It makes the fewest asusmptions about God. Denominations tack on junk that make a lot of assumptions about God that are based on a book, which is full of colorful, and mostly metaphorical stories.

 

[serp777]

I'm with you Joe, we have little control with regard to the conclusions our brains generate from information and experiences. And this is why I believe it is important for Christians to withdrawal from the "world", and surround themselves with other Christians. You listen to enough garbage, and soon you will believe it. Subject yourself to the gross perversions of the world, and you will likely become perverse. Hang out with thieves and whore-mongers and soon you will be one. My grandfather once told me something, I never needed to hear a second time, "you're no better than the friends you keep." And there is another one, "you are what you eat."

LOL

this is why I believe it is important for Christians to withdrawal from the "world", and surround themselves with other Christians.

You listen to enough garbage, and soon you will believe it.

So surround yourself with enough Christians and then you'll believe it. Good point sono.

 

[viole]

Yes, in spite of theists, the atheist claims that atheism is not a religion. IN truth, it is.

Atheism is a religion, if abstinence is a sexual position.

Whare did I hear that?

Ciao

- viole

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Religion is often quite simply a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith. It is something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience.
Religion is a cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. It is something of overwhelming importance to a person: football is his religion.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/religion

Atheists have great faith in their belief that there is no God. They have no evidence whatsoever to reach that conclusion, yet they believe it ardently, and spend a great amount of their time trying to convince other people that their beliefs are justified. They are wrong.

Under this very broad definition of "religion", everything (including football) is a religion. In that case, the word "religion" losses all meaning.

I also notice that you have chosen the last definitions provided on each of your links. If you remember from school, the first definitions given in a list of dictionary definitions are the preferred and most common; which is why they are listed first.

If we use the first 2 definitions (instead of singling out the last, broadest, least preferred) from each site, we come up with this:

the belief in a god or in a group of gods
an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:

The belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers, regarded as creating and governing the universe: respect for religion.
A particular variety of such belief, especially when organized into a system of doctrine and practice: the world's many religions.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order: a widow who went into religion and became a nun.

If you use sloppy definitions of words, you can apply a word to almost everything; but under the preferred and more accurate definitions of "religion", atheism is not a "religion"; no matter how much you want it to be

 

[Muffled]

How can anyone who thinks themselves rational believe that some guy who has been dead for 2016 years is going come back and save them from themselves.

I believe I am quite rational and believe the God who can do anything still lives in Jesus and will return when He is ready.

I believe He has already done that. When He returns, He will gather His own from the world that will go up in flames.

 

[Muffled]

Your mother.



Don't be a dick.



Casket or Urn, your choice.

I believe that is a materialistic view and only half right. I believe the spirit comes from where it was abiding.

I believe that covers a lot of territory but not all of it.

I believe I can imagine the distress of someone who does not know enough to leave the body after it is dead and finding itself in the flames of cremation. Sounds like a foretaste of Hell to me.