I'd Like an Argument, Please

[Spockrates]

Seer? How can he see anything with that schmutz over his eyes?

LOL! I know! Right?

 

[Spockrates]

How can you be satisfied worshiping only one god for your entire life? Or thinking that there is only one god, when there's so much diversity in the world? Why monotheism? And is Christianity really monotheistic (of the Abrahamic religions, it strikes me as the least genuinely monotheistic given the trinity and the plethora of saints and other semi-divine beings)?

There you go. Topic.

Excellent! The argument I was seeking! (Not to say it's the only one, just the first, today.) Before we begin, is there a religion with more than one god I should consider?

 

[Spockrates]

Start with - "How do I know that God exists?"

What kind of evidence would be sufficient to say you knew?

Then, after you've spent most of your life figuring that one out (only to still be dissatisfied with your answer when you're honest with yourself) ask why this hypothetical deity would limit his creation to only one path of approach to enlightenment. Why would the creator of all things be so super specific about figuring out who/what he is?

I'm of the opinion that such a being likely wouldn't limit sentient beings to only one way to find such enlightenment. We're all wired differently, so I suppose we have different ways of discovering different truths.

 

[Spockrates]

lost already.....in the scheme of life and living......
there is ONE whose will cannot be set aside
that would be the Almighty

list as many gods as you care to
the scheme of hierarchy will prevail

What about the Alwise? [emoji6]

 

[Spockrates]

Everyone has to find their own truth. Don't simply settle for the truth of others. There is a difference between being a "Christian" and following the teachings of Yeshua. Be bold.

Please tell me more. What is the difference?

 

[Spockrates]

#AllGodsMatter

Take that, infidel dogs...

LOL!

 

[Spockrates]

Here's my question, even though you asked for an argument. I suppose we can turn it into an argument, I'm a fan of arguing.

Question is, what do you expect to get from religion?

I suppose the least I'd expect would be to survive death. The most I'd expect is to be satisfied, to love and be loved--if not now than after death.

What positive thing do you expect from religion that you can't seem to get without it?

Survival and "Thrival" now and forever.

Because my list of positive things about religion is one item long: the lie of an afterlife can mitigate panic over one's eventual demise. That's it, end of list.

How so? Let's say I'm convinced all ends when I breath my last. Isn't all ending a cause for panic?

I still can't see anything else positive anyone would get from religion that you can't get without it. And with all the negative baggage that comes along with religion, I can't see how it's worth it. There must be better ways to deal with the idea of our finite lives that convincing ourselves there's a happy kingdom in the clouds.

Well, cloud-hopping is more of a metaphor than something to hope for, but I think I get what you're saying. Please tell me what this better way of which you speak is. Or is it a matter of hope and blind faith that the better way is, though it be unknown?

 

[BSM1]

Please tell me more. What is the difference?

Most "Christians" and practically all denominations follow the teachings of Paul (I believe they would be better served if they call themselves "Paulites") with all the trappings and dogma that this entails. The true teaching of Yeshua is very simple and begs one to look into oneself for message that waits there. All the other stuff you find in organized religion is just window dressing and mind control of the congregations, imho.

 

[Spockrates]

Keeping in mind that I am going entirely by second-hand information, it is my understanding that they encourage open and respectful discussion of their articles of faith. That is a very internalized, non-dogmatic approach which I can't help but sympathise with. They even give their teenagers some time in the "outside world" before they decide whether they want to live as traditional Quakers.

They also seem to keep a very healthy balance between having solid traditions and interacting with "outsiders", with little room for xenophobic fears - probably because they take such good care to decide what they believe and seek and why they do.

Very Dharmic, if I dare say so.

Worth checking out! Though I suppose I'd have to travel quite a distance to find one of their meeting places. Hard to quake alone, I suppose.

 

[LuisDantas]

Worth checking out! Though I suppose I'd have to travel quite a distance to find one of their meeting places. Hard to quake alone, I suppose.

In that case, may I suggest that you take a look at the concept of Dharma first?

 

[Spockrates]

Most "Christians" and practically all denominations follow the teachings of Paul (I believe they would be better served if they call themselves "Paulites") with all the trappings and dogma that this entails. The true teaching of Yeshua is very simple and begs one to look into oneself for message that waits there. All the other stuff you find in organized religion is just window dressing and mind control of the congregations, imho.

Thanks for yho. So does one example come to mind of something Paul taught, which Yeshu likely wouldn't condone?

 

[Spockrates]

In that case, may I suggest that you take a look at the concept of Dharma first?

Which concept--that of Hinduism or Buddhism?

 

[crossfire]

You must immediately find and lick the hand of an alpha preacher, or you are not a Christian. Once you find one who will allow it you must turn about and drop your pants, so they can mark you as their own.

Hahahaha! Thanks for the belly laugh, Brick!

 

[George-ananda]

So I'm a Christian without a religion, as I'm unsure what denomination gets it. Thought it might be fun and I might learn something to debate some topic regarding Christianity, such as why one denomination is better than another, or why some other religion is better than Christianity in general, or why atheism why atheism is better than any religion. I'm easy. Suggest a topic of discussion.

[emoji4]

I am going to suggest that pantheistic non-dual (God and creation are not-two) religious views are a more sophisticated understanding than the traditional western monotheistic dualist (God and creation are two-things) view. I think the dualist view of a loving father figure God worked at a time when general education and exposure was very limited as the concepts were graspable by the masses. However there is growing intellectual issues with this traditional view and in recent times in the western world we are seeing an explosion of more eastern and non-dualist ways of thinking about our existence. Go east young man, go east!

 

[LuisDantas]

Which concept--that of Hinduism or Buddhism?

I think it is more complicated than that, and at the same time also sort of simpler.

Dharma is a very situational word. But in the sense I am proposing it to you as an object of study, it is an attitude towards religion. It involves the role of the believer in validating the belief and, even, in developing it outright.

 

[Spockrates]

I am going to suggest that pantheistic non-dual (God and creation are not-two) religious views are a more sophisticated understanding than the traditional western monotheistic dualist (God and creation are two-things) view. I think the dualist view of a loving father figure God worked at a time when general education and exposure was very limited as the concepts were graspable by the masses. However there is growing intellectual issues with this traditional view and in recent times in the western world we are seeing an explosion of more eastern and non-dualist ways of thinking about our existence. Go east young man, go east!

Well, the Sumerian, Egypians, et. al, were pantheists long before the Jewish people began teaching monotheism. If general education and exposure was less among the ancient Sumerians and Egyptians than it is today, then how can such be a cause of Monotheism?

 

[Spockrates]

I think it is more complicated than that, and at the same time also sort of simpler.

Dharma is a very situational word. But in the sense I am proposing it to you as an object of study, it is an attitude towards religion. It involves the role of the believer in validating the belief and, even, in developing it outright.

Well, L. Ron Hubbard said something to the effect that he man who created his own religion would make himself filthy rich off of those who believed in it. The science fiction writer then went on to create the financially successful religion of Scientology, or so I've heard. But I don't think becoming a snake oil salesman is the kind of religious creativity of which you speak!

Please tell me: What role should I consider taking in developing my own religion?

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, L. Ron Hubbard said something to the effect that he man who created his own religion would make himself filthy rich off of those who believed in it.

I don't think I share much of an understanding of what a religion is supposed to be with L. Ron Hubbard. I hope that I do not, as a matter of fact.

Religions IMO are not supposed to be believed in exactly.

The science fiction writer then went on to creat the financially successful religion of Scientology, or so I've heard. But I don't think becoming a snake oil salesman is the kind of religious creativity of which you speak!

Amen to that, brother.

Please tell me what role I should consider in developing my own religion.

Whoa. It is not for me to say... still, since you are asking, I would start by asking myself what I do value and why. Then take a look around to see what resonates. Which concepts, images and ideas sound reasonable and inspiring?

What do you understand the role of religion to be, by the way? Is it about learning virtue? About some deity? About tradition? About mutual acknowledgement? Self-discovery?

 

[George-ananda]

Well, the Sumerian, Egypians, et. al, were pantheists

Pantheists or polytheists?, I am not sure I understand those religions well enough to say.

long before the Jewish people began teaching monotheism. If general education and exposure was less among the ancient Sumerians and Egyptians than it is today, then how can such be a cause of Monotheism?

My understanding was that the Jews were led to adopt monotheism (one God) over polytheism (many Gods) and that was an advancement for their time. The pantheism that I believe in is the non-dual belief that all of this is in God (non-dual=God and creation are not-two) versus dual (God and creation are two).

 

[Spockrates]

I don't think I share much of an understanding of what a religion is supposed to be with L. Ron Hubbard. I hope that I do not, as a matter of fact.

Religions IMO are not supposed to be believed in exactly.



Amen to that, brother.


Whoa. It is not for me to say... still, since you are asking, I would start by asking myself what I do value and why. Then take a look around to see what resonates. Which concepts, images and ideas sound reasonable and inspiring?

What do you understand the role of religion to be, by the way? Is it about learning virtue? About some deity? About tradition? About mutual acknowledgement? Self-discovery?

Yes