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I would rather be dead.

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes. We're vast. Still, 95% or more of Hindus believe in reincarnation of some kind. The details vary. Similar to how all Christians believe in the divinity of Christ, yet the details of it vary.
I'm not saying that all so-called Christians believe in the same things about Christ. Some think he's God, some think he's equal to God, some think he's part of a trinity of gods, or however they want to describe it. So please don't confuse that with what the Bible actually says. That is what some religions teach though. Then again there are Muslims, too, that have differing takes on what the Qu'ran says, or how the religion is to be interpreted.
This, however, does not mean that animal or human souls really do migrate upon death to a lower or higher form of life. That is how I see it. By that I mean, it does not mean, because 95% of Hindus believe something about transmigration (sorry, reincarnation) of souls to embodiment in another state of life that it is the truth and nothing but.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I'm not saying that all so-called Christians believe in the same things about Christ. Some think he's God, some think he's equal to God, some think he's part of a trinity of gods, or however they want to describe it. So please don't confuse that with what the Bible actually says. That is what some religions teach though. Then again there are Muslims, too, that have differing takes on what the Qu'ran says, or how the religion is to be interpreted.
This, however, does not mean that animal or human souls really do migrate upon death to a lower or higher form of life. That is how I see it. By that I mean, it does not mean, because 95% of Hindus believe something about transmigration (sorry, reincarnation) of souls to embodiment in another state of life that it is the truth and nothing but.

Sorry if it sounded like I was presenting it as truth. I just meant it as belief. All faiths have variances.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Now first off, what do you mean by your last few words, that "difference of views is perfectly permissible in Hinduism - to a great extent"? Does that mean that a Hindu cannot believe, let's say, in Jesus as the only-begotten son of God? (Or the Bible)?
I realize that Christians and Muslims do not believe or teach the same things, but now I wonder about Hinduism. While you say that you don't believe in God, or any god I suppose, at all, that is perfectly permissable for a Hindu to believe that way. And it's ok with me, too, for you to believe that way. But please do explain what you mean by that last statement, if you will. "difference of views is perfectly permissible in Hinduism - to a great extent." Thanks.

Aup just means we're tolerant of others beliefs, just as you are here. By 'to a great extent' he means there are some intolerant people, but they are few and far between.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
So you are not certain as to whether your belief is true?

I'm certain, but in interfaith it's just more tactful to call it belief. This planet is a big place and there should be room for everyone. People who state their beliefs as facts don't understand what a fact is.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Now first off, what do you mean by your last few words, that "difference of views is perfectly permissible in Hinduism - to a great extent"? Does that mean that a Hindu cannot believe, let's say, in Jesus as the only-begotten son of God? (Or the Bible)?
Like everything else, restrictions in Hinduism too are limited to what a person believes. That is why I inserted this condition. There are people like the famous 'Ramakrishna Paramhans' who became a Christian and a Muslim for a fortnight each, who will bow to Jesus and Allah. However, my views are more restrictive. I do not like any mix-up between Hinduism and Abrahamic religions; though other Indic religions, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism are OK, even Dao is.

Absolute certainty about one particular God, as if they had any proof of it, and to the exclusion of all other deities worshiped by other people (Only my books is correct, all others are false; only what I say is correct and others are fools; even when it appears in Hinduism), to me, is abhorrent.
 
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YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I'm certain, but in interfaith it's just more tactful to call it belief. This planet is a big place and there should be room for everyone. People who state their beliefs as facts don't understand what a fact is.
Ok, you're certain about your belief in reincarnation but other Hindus have differing beliefs. And likely they are certain, too. It's possible that the atheistic Hindu is certain about his belief, too.
Like everything else, restrictions in Hinduism too are limited to what a person believes. That is why I inserted this condition. There are people like the famous 'Ramakrishna Paramhans' who became a Christian and a Muslim for a fortnight each, who will bow to Jesus and Allah. However, my views are more restrictive. I do not like any mix-up between Hinduism and Abrahamic religions; though other Indic religions, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism are OK, even Dao is.

Absolute certainty about one particular God, as if they had any proof of it, and to the exclusion of all other deities worshiped by other people (Only my books is correct, all others are false; only what I say is correct and others are fools; even when it appears in Hinduism), to me, is abhorrent.
So then it could be, or maybe it isn't, is that right? There is an old story that some would tell here (U.S.) and it goes something like this:
There was a man who really wanted to know the meaning of life. And he was very rich, so at a cocktail party he was having, he asked all his guests if they knew what is the meaning of life. Only one guest was able to help him. He told him about a man he heard about who lived at the top of a mountain, he was a hermit, but came out of his cave from time to time. If anyone knows the meaning of life, he said, that man must. But you will have to give up everything to get there, it is a long and arduous trip and you may not return. The man said, "Yes! I must go!" And so he gave up everything to get there. He hired guides, and after much time, made his way across the world and climbed the mountain to meet the ascetic. He saw him at last outside his cave, sitting and meditating. And he went over to him and said, "Oh, great sage, I have given up everything to ask you, tell me, great sage. You surely must know. WHAT is the meaning of life"? And the hermit said, holding up one finger, "Life is like a mountain." "Life is like a mountain?" the traveller said? "Life is like a mountain"? "Well, the hermit replied, "Maybe it's not like a mountain."
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I'm certain, but in interfaith it's just more tactful to call it belief. This planet is a big place and there should be room for everyone. People who state their beliefs as facts don't understand what a fact is.
So is it that you're sure your belief is correct, but others, such as Christianity or Judaism, are not? I mean they can't all be correct and contradicting one another at the same time, can they?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
So then it could be, or maybe it isn't, is that right?
No. it is not that. I am very certain that my views are the best and closest to truth, but they are strictly for me only or those who have similar/same views. That does not apply to any other person. Just like myself, they are free to hold any view they like, even my family. There is no confusion about that.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
So is it that you're sure your belief is correct, but others, such as Christianity or Judaism, are not? I mean they can't all be correct and contradicting one another at the same time, can they?
That's just the nature of belief. I don't react to it.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So is it that you're sure your belief is correct, but others, such as Christianity or Judaism, are not? I mean they can't all be correct and contradicting one another at the same time, can they?

I see it entirly depends upon what our heart looks for when we look for God within.

If we look for God we see that God is all that is good in us and it is God that allows us to be all that is bad. We have the choices always in front of us, we are never left without guidance.

1 Corinthians 10:13 "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it."

Matthew 7:7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you."

Regards Tony
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No. it is not that. I am very certain that my views are the best and closest to truth, but they are strictly for me only or those who have similar/same views. That does not apply to any other person. Just like myself, they are free to hold any view they like, even my family. There is no confusion about that.
So then, the rest who do not believe as you do are misled and/or confused, would you agree with that? Because -- you say you are certain your views are the BEST and closest to truth, and many, many, m-a-n-y people do not share your views. So--someone is closest to truth, as you say you are, but others are far away.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That's just the nature of belief. I don't react to it.
So, so far, neither you nor Tony has much if any logic to your beliefs, except somehow your heart tells you that what you believe, although quite differently from one another, is the closest to the truth. And I say, oh, well...have a nice day. It's been a trip, that's for sure.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So, so far, neither you nor Tony has much if any logic to your beliefs, except somehow your heart tells you that what you believe, although quite differently from one another, is the closest to the truth. And I say, oh, well...have a nice day. It's been a trip, that's for sure.

That is such a preconceived observation, that I agree it would be best to leave it there. :D

Faith takes a earnest search using logic and justice.

Regards Tony
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That is such a preconceived observation, that I agree it would be best to leave it there. :D

Faith takes a earnest search using logic and justice.

Regards Tony
I don't see you have any logic, and so yes, best to leave you with your beliefs. Have a nice day.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Always willing to discuss how your faith is built on superior logic.

Regards Tony
I must say that your answers have been cloud-like. You failed to answer if every person is a manifestation of God. Perhaps you missed the question.
Here's the idea: it's a rather old story. I hope you will read the following:
There was a wealthy man who wanted to know the meaning of life. And so one day at a cocktail party he asked all those in attendance if they knew the meaning of life. And one man answered him. He said, "I don't know the meaning of life, but there is a man at the top of the Himalayas that, if anyone does, he does. But know that you will have to forsake everything you have to get there, because it is a long and arduous journey, and you may not be able to return. But if anyone can help you, this guru would be able to."
So this man gave up everything to make this long journey to the top of the mountain. Eventually he at last reached the place where the guru was living, and seeing him in front of his cave, he approached him, and said, "O great guru, tell me, please! What is the meaning of life"? And the guru replied from a lotus position with one finger up in the air, "Life is like a fountain." The man was taken aback and asked, "Life is like a fountain? Life is like a fountain"? And the guru replied, "Well, maybe it's not like a fountain."
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
So then, the rest who do not believe as you do are misled and/or confused, would you agree with that? Because -- you say you are certain your views are the BEST and closest to truth, and many, many, m-a-n-y people do not share your views. So--someone is closest to truth, as you say you are, but others are far away.
Yeah, I believe that, but does it matter in life? The enlightened and the unenlightened, both are destined to dust (so to say) or perhaps more correctly their personalities to oblivion and atoms to recycling.
Faith takes a earnest search using logic and justice.
Faith does not take anything, just a belief in what some bloke said. And don't resort to logic when you are talking of faith. Logic will destroy it.
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You failed to answer if every person is a manifestation of God. Perhaps you missed the question.

No, as is is God who chooses His Messengers. They are all we can know of God.

Who is a son of spirit?

I see you have come upon the Hidden Words.

I personally see that is each of us that is in search of God with Love and Justice. Each hidden word starts with what I see may be a station of a searching heart, others are;

O Son of Utterance!
O Son of Being!
O Son of Man!
O Son of Earth!
O Son of Love!
O Son of Desire!
O Moving Form of Dust!
O Fleeting Shadow!

There are more.

Regards Tony
 
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