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I we were made out of dirt...

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DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
So then, what is sin?

Sin is literally, "to miss the mark." It is an archery term.

It means to do evil or fail to do right. It is not obeying the golden rule. The golden rule is to Do unto others as you would have them do unto you or Love your neighbor as yourself.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
I can't deny something that I believe doesn't exist. We believe in actions. Those actions have varying motivations and consequences.



Why? Things are born, they live, they die (leave their bodies), are reborn, rinse, repeat for eons. We don't fear death because we don't believe God judges or punishes us.

Why do you believe death is necessary? Why not life instead?
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Sin is literally, "to miss the mark." It is an archery term.

I know the etymology.

It means to do evil or fail to do right. It is not obeying the golden rule. The golden rule is to Do unto others as you would have them do unto you or Love your neighbor as yourself.

I know what the golden rule is. But if one person in China doesn't live up to that, a child in Wyoming should get cancer?
 
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DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Just taking your statement to its ridiculous and required end.

You're just not educated enough about the concept of sin to fully understand it. Neither is she. So you make the assumptions you do. It is spiritual and requires spiritual understanding.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Atheism teaches that there is/was no creator. So if you're an atheist you're forced to conclude that cancer and death are just naturally what happens along with abiogenesis.

No it doesn't, atheism is simply "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods." Nothing more nothing less, no tuition involved.

However, yes cancer and death are natural, cancer by errors in cell division, (you could blame your omniscient god for screwing up there). Death by the cessation of biological function (what god creates worshippers that conk out just when the veneration is getting good?,)

You may be interested to know, who knows if you'll ever need it but medical science is making progress to a/ reduce cancer and b/ prolong life.

DF's reply is very typical response of creationists.

They don't understand atheism so they mixed it up with science.

And they don't understand science, so they confused it with atheism.

It is just plain stubborn ignorance, or is it deliberate dishonesty?

To DavidFirth:

Atheism is only related to the question of theistic religion, not science.

As Christine said, atheism is only about atheists disagreeing with theists about the existence of god or gods.

Atheism has nothing to do with science.

Science is a tool for acquiring knowledge and for making use of that knowledge (application).

Scientists are professionals in their respective scientific fields, provided they have education, training and experiences to work in that fields.

A scientist can be an atheist, agnostic or theist, BUT atheism, agnosticism and theism are not science.

Take Georges Lemaître for example. He was a Roman Catholic priest, but his professional job was that of astrophysicist. And as a scientist, he was one of the pioneers of expanding universe model, better known later as the Big Bang theory. His work in science has nothing to do with the Catholic Church or with his personal religious belief.

Atheism and theistic religions have nothing to do with science.

Religious belief is more like personal opinion or personal taste.

For instance, if you were an atheist, and you like R&B music, does that mean atheism = R&B music? The answer, of course, is no.

That was simply a hypothetical scenario and question.

You can be a Christian, Jew, Hindu or deist, and like R&B songs, but it doesn't mean that those respective religions are one and the same as R&B music.

You are generalising, DavidFirth. You think that just because a scientist work in the field of abiogenesis, that make abiogenesis is the same as atheism. You are making generalised and faulty assumptions about both abiogenesis and atheism.

The question is, are you just scientifically ignorant creationist or are you dishonest creationist?
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
I know the etymology.



I know what the golden rule is. But if one person in China doesn't live up to that, a child in Wyoming should get cancer?

No, that's a misunderstanding.

If Man had remained righteous and holy instead of choosing to sin instead, we wouldn't experience cancer or death. But because we choose to sin cancer and death are a part of this world.

When you choose your own way instead of God's way this is the result.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
You're just not educated enough about the concept of sin to fully understand it. Neither is she. So you make the assumptions you do. It is spiritual and requires spiritual understanding.
Again, you are making faulty generalisation.

How do you know Christine?

Perhaps, she has always being atheist, or perhaps she grew up with religious background but gave up that religion, or perhaps she has a current religion we don't know about.

You cannot make such assumptions about Christine until you know more about her life.

You are forgetting that many atheists weren't always "atheist". Many were former Christians, and have extensive knowledge about their former religions.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Atheism is only related to the question of theistic religion, not science.

Atheism results in the forced choice of abiogenesis. There is no other choice for the atheist. So you must try to justify that choice. Life from non-life is quite a hurdle to have to overcome, I'll grant you that.

Also, the Big Bang and macroevolution are just ways of trying to justify the belief that no God exists. All of this just follows logically. Logic is all the atheist has to stand on.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
You're just not educated enough about the concept of sin to fully understand it. Neither is she. So you make the assumptions you do. It is spiritual and requires spiritual understanding.

Ohhhh, I see. Despite having been Christian half my life I guess that was all lost on me.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Again, you are making faulty generalisation.

How do you know Christine?

Perhaps, she has always being atheist, or perhaps she grew up with religious background but gave up that religion, or perhaps she has a current religion we don't know about.

You cannot make such assumptions about Christine until you know more about her life.

You are forgetting that many atheists weren't always "atheist". Many were former Christians, and have extensive knowledge about their former religions.

What I said still stands. Unless you do understand it but just choose to reject it.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Hmm. You'd have a hard time getting me to buy into the whole illusion concept.

As difficult as getting me to buy into a God giving two year olds cancer in 2017 for something someone did in 1763. Which btw is a lot less credible than believing the world is illusion, based on some new concepts in theoretical physics.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
As difficult as getting me to buy into a God giving two year olds cancer in 2017 for something someone did in 1763. Which btw is a lot less credible than believing the world is illusion, based on some new concepts in theoretical physics.

Again, God didn't give cancer to the child. That's an ignorant statement.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
No, but it is because of our evil.
And isn't that nice.

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