Hmmm.... I believe I already admitted to the fact.
SHAME on us (although I am not a participant).The problem is that evolutionists don't want to admit that their positions was racist
as documented
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I guess this is the current state of creationism
- Thread starter Jose Fly
- Start date
Hmmm.... I believe I already admitted to the fact.
SHAME on us (although I am not a participant).The problem is that evolutionists don't want to admit that their positions was racist
as documented
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And if you check back on my posts with you on this, you'll see I never denied that.The problem is that evolutionists don't want to admit that their positions was racist
Whew, I'm glad we got that behind us and are still friends.
We are still friends, right?
LOL.... always!!!And if you check back on my posts with you on this, you'll see I never denied that.
Whew, I'm glad we got that behind us and are still friends.
We are still friends, right?
Thank you for your grace towards me... I'm still very young and ... .... ... innocent?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yes, some fossils are younger than others.Thank you for your grace towards me... I'm still very young and ... .... ... innocent?
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
You only say that because you don't have a firm grasp of the principles and Science involved. You can't possibly hear a reasonable argument if you always ask questions like the following:
Yeah. That's still being hashed out and it's still an unknown. Congratulations.
You must realize, of course, that it's just as easily possible that when/if that question is answered that it will prove just as destructive to the idea that a Bearded Space Wizard willed the cosmos into existence just so he could punish a few Jews for doing things poorly.
Non-answers don't support a position. Evidence does.
"Spiritual leanings" is another way to say "I don't really have a clue but I prefer magic". These conversations, on behalf of the spiritualists, are absolutely devoid of any type of evidence or research beyond the anecdotal. The whole of this thread attests to that. Not a single Creationist has provided a substantiating fact. Not one. Why is that?
I find the crutch of "Marco-Evolution" amusing here, as the processes behind "Micro-Evolution" (which most of you now admit is an observable thing because you aren't TOTALLY beyond reason) are exactly the same. As always, the conversation with Creationists ends when they're asked to describe or explain a biological barrier that exists which would keep Micro-evolutionary changes from continuing over long periods of time, creating macro-evolutionary divergences from parent populations... You guys recognize that you have no idea how to answer that question, so you balk at it. But it's a serious point that needs answered if your position is worth anything at all. The lack of answers from your side is telling.
Presuppositional bias exposed.
Please provide evidence for said Wizard or stop claiming that it exists.
Yes, I know exactly what you mean......
I understand completely what a "theory" means in science.....its a suggested hypothesis masquerading as a proven fact......all that "overwhelming evidence" is actually 'underwhelming' when you really examine it, and anyone with half a brain can see through the smoke screen to the awful truth! There is no "real" evidence that supports the notion that macro-evolution ever took place.
"Suggestions", unless they can be proven, will never be facts.
Deeje said:
You mention this "bearded space wizard" as if its something ID proponents even contemplate. If that is what you picture the Creator to be, then no wonder you balk at belief in him. The Creator is a powerful entity who brought matter into existence. Considering the vastness of the universe, can you imagine what such an entity would have to be? If we cannot even look at our own sun without physical damage, millions of miles away from it....and our sun is only a small one compared to the supergiants over 2,000 times larger than our own.....a being capable of creating this universe would be a little beyond mere human minds to contemplate, let alone describe or comprehend.
Oh, I couldn't agree more....which is why evolution is nothing but a gigantic fraud. You guys have no "real" evidence. You have manufactured ideas that are read into science's "interpretations" of "evidence". That is a pathetic substitute for "real evidence" when you accuse ID believers of having no "real evidence" for our Creator. We have as much as you do.
Thanks for rating my post. If you have further questions on evolution. Let me know.Hmmm.... I believe I already admitted to the fact.
The problem is that evolutionists don't want to admit that their positions was racist
MohammadPali
Active Member
My problem is evolution is that, there's animals older than humans and for some reason they haven't evolved yet. Theres fish that are 65 million years old and for some reason they haven't walked on land yet. Or how about the crocodiles ? Much longer than humans, they haven't learned to walk on 2 feet to go to the supermarket and fetch some meat. They can't even walk backwards. The monkeys are suppose to be our cousins, and yet they still haven't learned to talk like us, walk like us, or even use the club, straighten their backs.
Something is wrong.
Something is wrong.
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
Please provide evidence supporting your Biblical conclusion.The answer to the question of how life began is a game changer for your theory. With all this knowledge that science supposedly has to explain the mechanisms for "macro-evolution", as opposed to "adaptation".....why is this question still a mystery to them? It has never been a mystery to Bible believers.
Show me how you KNOW how life began.
How?
How can an infinitely more powerful being than the Universe predate and then create the Universe?
If you have a problem with naturalistic origins, then you're equally going to be baffled by your own position...
Also, please support any of the claims you just made. I challenged your ilk in my last response for providing nothing in support of their "knowledge". Prove me wrong. Show me how any of what you just said is even remotely possible.
(Remember, anecdotal evidence is not sufficient.)
Interpreting evidence is the only thing that humans can do. I can interpret and even predict future events using observational evidence and patterns of behavior, be it with numbers, chemical or physical interactions, social movements, biological happenings, or celestial events.Oh, I couldn't agree more....which is why evolution is nothing but a gigantic fraud. You guys have no "real" evidence. You have manufactured ideas that are read into science's "interpretations" of "evidence". That is a pathetic substitute for "real evidence" when you accuse ID believers of having no "real evidence" for our Creator. We have as much as you do.
Can religious musings accurately do the same thing? Can they do be done with any type of consistency? If you can do any of those things, it's because of science, not prophetic voices in your head, which is something that I find amusing... You guys are anti-science when it's convenient and pro-science when it's not a direct threat to your worldview. That's also telling.
Evolutionary Biology is exactly the same as every other branch of science in this way. It interprets evidence, makes predictions, tests conclusions, and keeps sorting through challenges and questions until it has established an overall pattern of evidence which lends itself to the establishment of an overarching scientific theory.
It could all be blown to bits, sure. Anything and everything humanity has ever known could be brought to the ground with enough supporting contradictory evidence... All you have to do is provide it. Challenge the established literature with something better than "I don't like it!" and maybe you'd get somewhere.
Can you do that? Can you supply evidence contrary to our position and supportive of yours?
Do you have any of that?
Do you have any factual, scholarly studies which objectively refute the established literature of Evolutionary biology?
Do you have any independent evidence to support the idea that an omnipotent being is a possibility?
Do you have any evidence which suggests that said being created anything?
Do you have any evidence which supports the HOW or WHY that you claim to know?
Do you have any evidence or research that isn't directly hinged on your Theology?
If you do, now would be the time to share it.
This is like saying that something is wrong with the idea that America was colonized by Europeans because why haven't all Europeans gone to America?
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
What's wrong is your assumption that evolution is linear and has a fixed end point. It doesn't. Environmental niches, for example, apply no pressure to organism already suited for that niche. Why would organisms change if they're already successful at surviving?
Since all belief in the Bible is "faith" based, then "faith" in what it says is required. But let me remind you that those who support evolution, also have to have "faith" that the conclusions reached by your own teachers are correct. Isn't the validity of their conclusions just based on your faith in them?
If they cannot produce solid evidence for their conclusions (and we know they can't) then is it enough to say something "might have" or "could have" led to 'this' or 'that'? How scientific is it when absolute proof cannot be furnished? You too have a faith based belief as I have said all along.
The Being who created matter does not dwell in the physical realm. He is larger than our material reality and beyond our comprehension of time. You think mere mortals can quantify him?
Everything in existence has an opposite, does it not? There is matter and there is anti-matter. Define anti-matter. What are black holes? How does gravity work? What causes magnetism? How much does science really know, compared to what they have yet to discover? If there is an all powerful Creator, do you imagine he is going to reveal anything to mere mortals who think he is just "a bearded wizard in the sky"?
Either God is a moron, or man is....and I know which one has my vote.
Define "naturalistic". If God created processes which appear to be "natural" then where do the laws of nature come from? Did these laws just pop up out of nowhere for no apparent reason? If those laws demonstrate purpose, then there has to be 'someone' designing them for that purpose. What useful thing do you possess that is designed for a specific purpose that had no designer?
Crediting "nature" with assigning purpose to creation is like worshipping the sun with no thought of why there is a sun and who put it there? Seeing the sun in the bigger picture allows us to appreciate how amazing it is and how vital it is to life on earth. It dominates our world, but in the universe it is but an insignificant speck.
Seeing the big picture puts everything in perspective. How smart are humans really?
If anecdotal evidence is not admissible, then all of your own evidence just went out of the window. Scientists tell us that "macro-evolution" is a fact, when it clearly isn't. Fossils cannot speak, but that does not prevent anthropologists from giving them a voice.....what are their conclusions based on? Guesses....nothing more than educated guesses. Nothing that happened before there was intelligent human life to document anything can be presented with any certainty. "Might have" and "could have" are not scientific statements. They are suggestions.....supposition...conjecture. Just because it sounds convincing doesn't mean it is.
True science backs up everything the Bible says about creation....an old earth...a slow and deliberate process of creation over a long period of time. That is why it is called "creation" and not "magic" (which is condemned in the Bible BTW). There was no "poofing" of things into existence in a mere week, but a considered act of creation by a gifted artist with eternity up his sleeve. If you read the Genesis account, it was only at the end of each creative period that the Creator was satisfied with his work. Each creation may have needed refinement or enhancement and God had no time constraints to do whatever he wished...even if it was to scrap something and start again....as many artists do.
You seem to only entertain the notion of two camps....creationism and evolution...both of these are rubbish IMO. There is a middle ground where the Bible and science meet and agree completely.....neither of those sides has a clue that this middle ground exists. They are too bust trying to prove the other fellow wrong!
The Bible has made many predictions too....some of them hundreds or even thousands of years in advance of their fulfillment. We are living in one of those predicted times right now. Here is how the Bible describes the events that show us where we are in the stream of time....
Matthew 24:3-14:
"While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
Jesus said that a "sign" was needed to demonstrate that he was "present"...not "coming". This indicates that his presence is not a visible event but is tied in with the "sign" indicating that his "presence had begun and that "the conclusion of the system of things" (or the world system of government at this period) was coming to an end and rulership of this earth would be taken over by God's rulership. This was prophesied in the book of Daniel 2,500 years ago. (Daniel 2:44)
What time period does this describe?
After warning that many false "Christs" would appear, Jesus said...."You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet." So wars were always going to be common, but it was not just wars that would signal Christ's return...it was an unprecedented kind of warfare....
"For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress."
We believe that the FIRST WORLD WAR was the beginning of that warfare. Never before in history had the entire world been involved in a single conflict. Alliances formed among nations drew countries into the conflict that probably would not have participated, but they were obligated to fight.
Earthquakes have increased markedly in the last 100 years.
Jesus went on to say....
"many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold."
The lawlessness we see today is on a scale that is not manageable and on a level where no one feels safe, even in their own houses anymore. Love of neighbor used to keep communities close and reliant on one another for help...but those times are gone. No one can trust their neighbor anymore. People lie and cheat and steal so how can we love those we cannot trust?
In verses 21 and 22 it says....."for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."
This was partly describing the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE, but the prophesy had a two fold application since it was tied in with Jesus' second appearance.
His next words in verse13 then have meaning for us today....
"But the one who has endured to the end will be saved."
What kind of endurance do Christians need in this "time of the end"? In a world where godlessness is rampant and those who do worship deities worship the wrong ones, it is those who stick to the Bible and do what Jesus told them, in spite of all opposition, who will be saved.
Then the final feature of the sign....."And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."
The message is being preached, but who is listening? (Matthew 24:37-39)
Just as surely as the prophesy was fulfilled in a small way on ancient Jerusalem, so it will be on a grand scale when God brings this entire satanically inspired system crashing to the ground. God will take no prisoners and there will not be any survivors who have not taken their stand before the end comes. This is what the Bible teaches and this is what I see taking place in the world. This is why I believe the Bible. There is my proof for its accuracy.
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They are not 'musings' and if you cared to check them out you would be able to see that for yourself...but you dismiss it all without investigation.
We are certainly NOT anti-science.....we are anti-fake science. We can see the difference which evolutionists apparently cannot.
Because it requires faith in order to be acceptable to God, the actual proof that you demand, will be the last thing that all the ungodly will witness. Faith doesn't need "proof"...it exists in the heart, not just the mind. My logic is not one bit challenged by my faith...one supports the other. When we have the kind of faith that God is looking for in his worshippers, we can see and feel his presence and activity in our lives in ways you could never imagine. It isn't based on wishful thinking....we have demonstrable proof in our own lives that what we believe is true and that our Creator is real.
I always have.....which is why I challenge science to back up what it teaches with real evidence and to prove that there is no Creator with more than "I don't believe in him" and religion is just myth.
Perhaps we should let time be the judge of what transpires.....the world is falling apart in front of our eyes and there appears to be nothing mere humans can do about it.
MohammadPali
Active Member
The first thing God created was the pen, and he commanded it to write.
Then he commanded it to measure the weight of everything that exists then, and everything that will exist later and combined the measurements. And set the balance.
And then he expanded the 7 heavens and expanded them, and it doesn't stop expanding until the appointed time.
The first creatures on earth where called the binn,but they were devious and destroyed one another so he created another being called the jinn who was led by a pious jinn named ibliss son of jan. Jan was the first jinn ever created. Ibliss helped destroy the binn who were very powerful creatures on earth. The binn we know nothing about. They are rumored to be super intelligent and may have found a way to manipulate their age. We don't know.
The jinn rebel against god don't heed to warnings, and challenge authority and kill each other. So god sent the angels and wiped out the most powerful of the jinn, but left the weaker not so powerful jinn. Ibliss was raised to the status of were the angels are, but not an angel. He was never an angel anyway. He was at one point pious and noble, but his pride out does his faith.
God starts to create man, he molded him (adam) but didn't put a spirit in him. And he left his mold for a long time. Ibliss even saw adams mold, and he was shocked at this. He said to himself that god has a great purpose for this. God gathered different parts of earth to create adam.
ibliss later on becomes satan. or shaitan. And you know the rest from there.
Then he commanded it to measure the weight of everything that exists then, and everything that will exist later and combined the measurements. And set the balance.
And then he expanded the 7 heavens and expanded them, and it doesn't stop expanding until the appointed time.
The first creatures on earth where called the binn,but they were devious and destroyed one another so he created another being called the jinn who was led by a pious jinn named ibliss son of jan. Jan was the first jinn ever created. Ibliss helped destroy the binn who were very powerful creatures on earth. The binn we know nothing about. They are rumored to be super intelligent and may have found a way to manipulate their age. We don't know.
The jinn rebel against god don't heed to warnings, and challenge authority and kill each other. So god sent the angels and wiped out the most powerful of the jinn, but left the weaker not so powerful jinn. Ibliss was raised to the status of were the angels are, but not an angel. He was never an angel anyway. He was at one point pious and noble, but his pride out does his faith.
God starts to create man, he molded him (adam) but didn't put a spirit in him. And he left his mold for a long time. Ibliss even saw adams mold, and he was shocked at this. He said to himself that god has a great purpose for this. God gathered different parts of earth to create adam.
ibliss later on becomes satan. or shaitan. And you know the rest from there.
Any actual evidence for this tale of yours?
MohammadPali
Active Member
Ofcourse not. Mankind loses everything. History is meant to be lost. God keeps things from the past and sometimes helps us find things to fortify our beliefs.
This is the relugious debate section, please refrain from posting beliefs that you can't justify. The discussion and interfaith section is good for that. Just a friendly advice, nothing more
MohammadPali
Active Member
This is the relugious debate section, please refrain from posting beliefs that you can't justify. The discussion and interfaith section is good for that. Just a friendly advice, nothing more
Beliefs I can't justify? Thats islam. Do you have anything more authentic than the quran? I was just sharing.