How do you refer to someone

[Unveiled Artist]

Right.
I'm not even sure how someone could practice it without himself being there.

Im more familar with private worship as well as communal. To me, saying a non convenant Jew cant worship the Sabbath privately/personally is like saying I cant give the Eucharist when Im not a priest. But gentiles only have one convenant and accept others into their covenant.

Id like to explore this more but cant here. All I can ask is what does the non convenant Jew do instead to honor the resting of god?

 

[Tumah]

Im more familar with private worship as well as communal. To me, saying a non convenant Jew cant worship the Sabbath privately/personally is like saying I cant give the Eucharist when Im not a priest. But gentiles only have one convenant and accept others into their covenant.

Id like to explore this more but cant here. All I can ask is what does the non convenant Jew do instead to honor the resting of god?

There is no such thing as a non-covenant Jew. One is either a Jew or not. Perhaps you meant, non-Jew who wishes to observe additional commandments, or for practical purposes, Noahide.

The resting of G-d is the creation of the Sabbath. Non-Jews may not observe the Sabbath.
If he would like to honor the resting of G-d, he can do whatever he likes, besides observe the Sabbath since honoring the resting of G-d is not a Jewish concept.

 

[rosends]

How do you refer to a non-jew who practices Judaism?

For some reason I don't like saying "Jews" or "a Jew" practices... to me, that's like saying a African Americans are Baptists or a Chilian practices Catholicism (to put it nicely).

If the practicing individual is not accepted in the Jewish Order and does not have parents that are Jewish" how do you refer to him?

4 hours late to the party but my two cents:
1. A non-Jew who practices Judaism who isn't a candidate for conversion, is simply a non-Jew who is going through certain motions.
2. A non-Jew who practices Judaism will most probably also then be adhering to the Noachide laws, so he could be called a Noachide.
3. Words like "Jew" are often accurate but historically said with disdain -- the emotional intent of the speaker drives the propriety of the word. Is it impossible for an African American to be a Baptist?

Also, even a non-Jew who is working towards conversion may not fully keep the sabbath until after the conversion.

 

[Akivah]

For some reason when I say Jew, it feels like Im calling an African American a n/. (I am AfA and hate deregotory terms)

Interesting. Do you consider the word "Jew" to be a derogatory term?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There is no such thing as a non-covenant Jew. One is either a Jew or not. Perhaps you meant, non-Jew who wishes to observe additional commandments, or for practical purposes, Noahide.

The resting of G-d is the creation of the Sabbath. Non-Jews may not observe the Sabbath.
If he would like to honor the resting of G-d, he can do whatever he likes, besides observe the Sabbath since honoring the resting of G-d is not a Jewish concept.

What does Sabbath mean in judaism and how is it practiced tp where some Jews practicing cannnot practice the Sabbath?

For the record, when I say Jew, I am saying those who are by convenant (or however the term is used.)

Practicing Jew can be a Naidide or not but the point is, someone who practices Judaism.

My OP question was about non-Jews who practice Judaism.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Interesting. Do you consider the word "Jew" to be a derogatory term?

Yes. For some reason it doesnt ring right in my ears. I have harsh feelings for holocoast and things of that nature. In my opinion, if feels like calling a African American black (our family never seen ourselves as black nor AF) or n/.

I know it doesnt upset Jews themselves. It just that word "you jew; a jew; that jew" bothers me personally.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

4 hours late to the party but my two cents:
1. A non-Jew who practices Judaism who isn't a candidate for conversion, is simply a non-Jew who is going through certain motions.
2. A non-Jew who practices Judaism will most probably also then be adhering to the Noachide laws, so he could be called a Noachide.
3. Words like "Jew" are often accurate but historically said with disdain -- the emotional intent of the speaker drives the propriety of the word. Is it impossible for an African American to be a Baptist?

Also, even a non-Jew who is working towards conversion may not fully keep the sabbath until after the conversion.

What does it mean and how does one keep the sabbath in the manner a practicing non converted Jew cannot do?

 

[rosends]

What does it mean and how does one keep the sabbath in the manner a practicing non converted Jew cannot do?

Not "cannot" but "may not" -- a non-Jew or a not-yet-converted candidate is not allowed (under Jewish law) to abide by all the laws of the sabbath (sometimes, a candidate is told to turn a light on once per sabbath, or carry something in his pocket (in the absence of an eiruv).)

 

[Akivah]

What does it mean and how does one keep the sabbath in the manner a practicing non converted Jew cannot do?

Shalom Carlita.

See Shabbos goy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Shalom Carlita.

See Shabbos goy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy

Wow. Thank you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not "cannot" but "may not" -- a non-Jew or a not-yet-converted candidate is not allowed (under Jewish law) to abide by all the laws of the sabbath (sometimes, a candidate is told to turn a light on once per sabbath, or carry something in his pocket (in the absence of an eiruv).)

Ah. Good comparison example, if you are familiar with Catholicism.

Any Christian male or female can go to Mass atna Catholic Church but they cannot take the Eucharist

Once the male Christian is converted to Catholicism, he, then, can take thr Eucharist.

However, although the female and male converted Catholic can take the Eucharist, only males (because of the line from Peter all males) can be priest and take on that vocation.

Females can give out the Eucharist (as non-jews may observe the Sabbath) but she cannot be a priest and bless the Eucharist as Jesus (just as a non converted Jew may not practice the Sabbath)

So, just like the female whoncan give out the Eucharist so can a Jew so work (for?) converted Jews who, by their laws, are prohibited from working on the Sabbath.

Did I get the comparison right?

 

[metis]

How do you refer to a non-jew who practices Judaism?

For some reason I don't like saying "Jews" or "a Jew" practices... to me, that's like saying a African Americans are Baptists or a Chilian practices Catholicism (to put it nicely).

If the practicing individual is not accepted in the Jewish Order and does not have parents that are Jewish" how do you refer to him?

Around 2000 years ago, there was a designation called "God-Fearers" as translated into English, but I don't know how it would written in Aramaic. These were non-Jews who believed in haShem, followed at least parts of the Law, but they couldn't observe the entire Law, such as the Temple sacrifices. It is believed by at least some theologians that they may have formed the bulk at first of those non-Jews who were attracted to early Christianity.

 

[rosends]

Females can give out the Eucharist (as non-jews may observe the Sabbath) but she cannot be a priest and bless the Eucharist as Jesus (just as a non converted Jew may not practice the Sabbath)

So, just like the female whoncan give out the Eucharist so can a Jew so work (for?) converted Jews who, by their laws, are prohibited from working on the Sabbath.

Did I get the comparison right?

This requires equating giving something out with following a complete set of laws. It also indicates that the woman can have involvement as a full member, participating to the degree in which she is allowed to participate. The non-Jew who follows the law isn't operating as a "limited" member who can do some things but not others.

The issue of a shabbos goy is completely unrelated.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The non-Jew who follows the law isn't operating as a "limited" member who can do some things but not others.

Oooh. I'd have to think about this (excluding the comparison example). It's not clicking.

 

[Tumah]

Shalom Carlita.

See Shabbos goy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy

its funny that they actually have an article about that, but what does it have to do with what we're talking about?

 

[Tarheeler]

Oooh. I'd have to think about this (excluding the comparison example). It's not clicking.

I'd suggest looking at it more in terms of citizenship.

American citizens, whether natural-born or naturalized, are subject to the laws of the United States and are able to take part in all aspects of civic duties, responsibilities, and benefits.
Legal immigrants are subject to the same laws, but are not able to fully participate in the same way as a citizen; they cannot vote or hold jobs that require citizenship for example.

If they become naturalized citizens, they are then subject to the same statutes as all other citizens.

A non-Jew practicing Judaism is in a similar situation; while they can do many of the same things a Jew can do, there are some things that they should not. If they choose convert, then they have the same obligations as all other Jews.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This requires equating giving something out with following a complete set of laws. It also indicates that the woman can have involvement as a full member, participating to the degree in which she is allowed to participate. The non-Jew who follows the law isn't operating as a "limited" member who can do some things but not others.

The issue of a shabbos goy is completely unrelated.

Not "cannot" but "may not" -- a non-Jew or a not-yet-converted candidate is not allowed (under Jewish law) to abide by all the laws of the sabbath (sometimes, a candidate is told to turn a light on once per sabbath, or carry something in his pocket (in the absence of an eiruv).)

Using an alternative means of observing the Sabbath rather than telling the non converted jew he is limited in celebrating the sabbath?

Also, how does a Jew see the Sabbath if not the seventh day the Lord rested?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'd suggest looking at it more in terms of citizenship.

An American citizen, whether natural-born or naturalized, are subject to the laws of the United States and are able to take part in all aspects of civic duties, responsibilities, and benefits.
A legal immigrant is subject to the same laws, but are not able to fully participate in the same way as a citizen; they cannot vote or hold jobs that require citizenship for example.

If they become naturalized citizens, they are then subject to the same statures as all other citizens.

A non-Jew practicing Judaism is in a similar situation; while they can do many of the same things a Jew can do, there are some things that they should not. If they choose convert, then they have the same obligations as all other Jews.

Thank you. Can you use the exact same example but replace the words appropriate to Jewish Law?

 

[rosends]

Using an alternative means of observing the Sabbath rather than telling the non converted jew he is limited in celebrating the sabbath?

Also, how does a Jew see the Sabbath if not the seventh day the Lord rested?

It isn't that there is an alternative way of observing. There is simply "not observing". The non-Jew, according to Jewish law, may not fully observe, so he breaks a rule.

A Jew might see the sabbath in a variety of ways, with (IMHO) one essential way being as a day set aside to follow the laws which go along with that day.

 

[Tarheeler]

Thank you. Can you use the exact same example but replace the words appropriate to Jewish Law?

Then I'd simply be repeating what has already been said by others without providing the benefit of an example.