How do you "know" that others are wrong and you are right?

[Spirit of Light]

You can be atheist without being anti-religious and you can respect freedom of religion in the constitution.

Very true words, do not blame the nice calm people at all. And many atheists are very very nice.

 

[Kenny]

In the week or so since I come back to RF I noticed even more negativity then before I left.
And often (not always) the discussion derail because a non believer start asking questions that is non related to the OP, where it is very clear that their mission is to debunk any form of personal spiritual belief.

How do this people know they are correct when they can not prove the spiritual experience that others have is real?
What is the purpose of slandering a religion you do not follow your self? Yes I know you do not believe, burn the religious people do. And guess what, the religion is for the religious people to follow not the non religious.

And yes I know some religious people try to hard to convert you. But you can say No thank you. I do not believe, and just leave the discussion

How hard can it be?

can they all be right?

 

[Spirit of Light]

can they all be right?

If you mean the different religions or spiritual teachings?
In my understanding yes all spiritual teaching hold the truth, some see it from one p.o.w where others see it from a different p.o.w.
That said and again from my own understanding, not all spiritual teaching hold the same level of truth, this is why it can be different answers to the same question. It all come down to the enlightenment level each founding teacher had when they were teaching the path the first time.

 

[Secret Chief]

There's a concept in psychology called "cognitive dissonance" that can be helpful in contextualizing this aspect of human behavior,
The basic idea is that persons hold a particular worldview and that when the encounter something that is in conflict with that worldview, it causes mental stress or uncomfortable emotions.

Are you sure that this is cognitive dissonance? My understanding is that cognitive dissonance is the phenomenon in which a person holds two contradictory beliefs and that this results in psychological stress.
Cognitive dissonance is not caused by encountering a contradictory belief - which of course happens very often.

 

[Kenny]

If you mean the different religions or spiritual teachings?
In my understanding yes all spiritual teaching hold the truth, some see it from one p.o.w where others see it from a different p.o.w.
That said and again from my own understanding, not all spiritual teaching hold the same level of truth, this is why it can be different answers to the same question. It all come down to the enlightenment level each founding teacher had when they were teaching the path the first time.

Yes... they all can have truth in it...

But more specifically - some believe in reincarnation, others believe you just become one with everything and still others believe in a resurrection... they can't all be right.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yes... they all can have truth in it...

But more specifically - some believe in reincarnation, others believe you just become one with everything and still others believe in a resurrection... they can't all be right.

From their standpoint of teaching they can be correct in my understanding.
It all depend on how the enlighten teacher firstly lay out his or her teaching to their followers. And again it comes down to what level of wisdom the founding enlighten teacher was at when they realized the new spiritual teaching.

 

[night912]

From experience, I've learned to not let the negativity bother me. But that does not mean that I won't object to some things that I disagree with. I think it's best not to bring forth the negative things that have been said. It's only adding more fuel to the fire. And that's when the finger pointing begins. Negativity attracts more negativity.

We cannot control what others say, but we can control the things that we say. But at the end, it all comes down to the individual and how they can take it. It doesn't matter how many punches you can throw, what's important is how many punches you can take and still be able to stand. And being that this is a public forum, especially being in the debate section, one should realize that there are others who have beliefs and ideas that are different from yours and should be ready for anything that may be thrown at you. So if one cannot take the criticism, think before you post your response. Your comment is what ultimately determines what and how others will respond.

 

[Kenny]

From their standpoint of teaching they can be correct in my understanding.
It all depend on how the enlighten teacher firstly lay out his or her teaching to their followers. And again it comes down to what level of wisdom the founding enlighten teacher was at when they realized the new spiritual teaching.

Or, everyone is convinced in their own mind (of which I am partial to )

 

[Spirit of Light]

From experience, I've learned to not let the negativity bother me. But that does not mean that I won't object to some things that I disagree with. I think it's best not to bring forth the negative things that have been said. It's only adding more fuel to the fire. And that's when the finger pointing begins. Negativity attracts more negativity.

We cannot control what others say, but we can control the things that we say. But at the end, it all comes down to the individual and how they can take it. It doesn't matter how many punches you can throw, what's important is how many punches you can take and still be able to stand. And being that this is a public forum, especially being in the debate section, one should realize that there are others who have beliefs and ideas that are different from yours and should be ready for anything that may be thrown at you. So if one cannot take the criticism, think before you post your response. Your comment is what ultimately determines what and how others will respond.

You have many wise words in your answer,
I am not worried what people think of me as a person, not is it important if they believe my words.
My reason for speaking up was because of the very negative posts about religious practice when they them self do not practice it or believe in it.
In my view there is no need for comments that us made to hurt others.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Or, everyone is convinced in their own mind (of which I am partial to )

This is important.
We all have our own understanding of the teaching we follow, so of course there will be different answer from people within same faith. That does not discredit their words or understanding. Not is it discredit of the religion they follow.

But again if a person does not believe, but want to understand those who do. All they have to do is ask nicely

 

[Kenny]

This is important.
We all have our own understanding of the teaching we follow, so of course there will be different answer from people within same faith. That does not discredit their words or understanding. Not is it discredit of the religion they follow.

But again if a person does not believe, but want to understand those who do. All they have to do is ask nicely

You're OK Amanaki. Every once in a while I do ask!

 

[Spirit of Light]

You're OK Amanaki. Every once in a while I do ask!

Question is always welcome

 

[Deeje]

Maybe I am to open about my reaction to certain behaviors in RF, I admit that.
And maybe it is wrong of me to speak up, I realize a OP like this will also create tention toward my self.

But I believe it is important to speak up not only for my self, but for those of RF members who don't feel all is well here but don't want to stand up in the line of fire.

Maybe I am foolish to do this. But it is sometimes needed

Don't ever apologise for caring Amanaki....it is a vanishing quality in this selfish world. Remain true to what you hold to be of value....that way you can be an authentic version of yourself....not the product of someone's expectation of you. God sees who we really are, but sometimes we can't see past the end of our noses.

A lot of people become puppets to politics and religion and even science, so taking a stand and refusing to be a puppet is what I saw Jesus doing....his love for the truth did not allow him to bend to pressure to conform to what he knew was not the truth. He had the courage of his convictions and so should we.

It doesn't matter what others think of us.....it only matter what God thinks IMO.

I am glad you decided to stay....

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Many, religious and non-religious alike, are unable to manage their egos and are overcome by the urge to be right.

And I think that far more often, it's because some members make claims that cannot be understood by other members. More, those claims are often touted to be some sort of "truth" that brooks no dispute. That, as anyone should reasonably grasp, sets up a dilemma for the reader, who wants to know more, but will (I assure you of this) be denied anything more, outside of the original claim itself.

The OP tacitly implies that certain "religious experiences" are "real." I can accept, by the way, that in one sense such an experience may well be real -- the person who experienced really did. But the question then becomes, and this is a serious one, for those of us who wish to learn how the world works, was that "real" experience "reified?" Is it something that actually happened, or is something that was conjured up in the mind of the experiencer?

I can tell you, from long experience, that the answer to that question will never be forthcoming. And I can also tell you that notwithstanding that there'll be no answer, such claims will continue to be made, from now until humans are no more.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Don't ever apologise for caring Amanaki....it is a vanishing quality in this selfish world. Remain true to what you hold to be of value....that way you can be an authentic version of yourself....not the product of someone's expectation of you. God sees who we really are, but sometimes we can't see past the end of our noses.

A lot of people become puppets to politics and religion and even science, so taking a stand and refusing to be a puppet is what I saw Jesus doing....his love for the truth did not allow him to bend to pressure to conform to what he knew was not the truth. He had the courage of his convictions and so should we.

It doesn't matter what others think of us.....it only matter what God thinks IMO.

I am glad you decided to stay....

Thank you @Deeje I can not be compared with those great masters when I am only a newbie my self hehe and I believe that those times i do raise my voice, is a sign that I do not have the patience I should have. It means I have still much to learn yet.
But as you also say, yes I do stand firm in my belief but can also admit my errors and lack of knowledge when needed.

But I will never trade the truth for false claims and tearing down other people's belief in religion and spiritual practice.

 

[night912]

You have many wise words in your answer,
I am not worried what people think of me as a person, not is it important if they believe my words.
My reason for speaking up was because of the very negative posts about religious practice when they them self do not practice it or believe in it.
In my view there is no need for comments that us made to hurt others.

What might not offend someone, may offend someone else. With that being said, try looking at it from the other side, because it works both ways. Saying that your religion is the truth, may be offensive to them even though it was not your intention.

In direct response to what you said,

"My reason for speaking up was because of the very negative posts about religious practice when they them self do not practice it or believe in it."

And that is the point. They don't practice it or believe it, so when you are speaking as if it is good, the truth, and/or used as justification, you are in fact, ignoring the part about them not practicing or believing it. This isn't just for the non-religious people, but it also goes for the ones who have a different religion. If for whatever reason they believe that the teachings of your religion is bad, wouldn't an appropriate response coming from them, how they view things, be somewhat negative since it's something that is outrageous according to their beliefs. If someone was to share their religious beliefs with us and say that according to their religion, they guarantee way to salvation is to rape and murder kids. Now, wouldn't you disagree with that? Would it be offensive to you if they go on talking about murdering and raping kids as if it were a good thing and that's what everyone should do in order to be save?

I deliberately used an extreme example in order to make the point easier to see. It's also to show that some people do view it as being that extreme, even if the one who that religion belongs to does not.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What might not offend someone, may offend someone else. With that being said, try looking at it from the other side, because it works both ways. Saying that your religion is the truth, may be offensive to them even though it was not your intention.

In direct response to what you said,

"My reason for speaking up was because of the very negative posts about religious practice when they them self do not practice it or believe in it."

And that is the point. They don't practice it or believe it, so when you are speaking as if it is good, the truth, and/or used as justification, you are in fact, ignoring the part about them not practicing or believing it. This isn't just for the non-religious people, but it also goes for the ones who have a different religion. If for whatever reason they believe that the teachings of your religion is bad, wouldn't an appropriate response coming from them, how they view things, be somewhat negative since it's something that is outrageous according to their beliefs. If someone was to share their religious beliefs with us and say that according to their religion, they guarantee way to salvation is to rape and murder kids. Now, wouldn't you disagree with that? Would it be offensive to you if they go on talking about murdering and raping kids as if it were a good thing and that's what everyone should do in order to be save?

I deliberately used an extreme example in order to make the point easier to see. It's also to show that some people do view it as being that extreme, even if the one who that religion belongs to does not.

In 99% of my OP I have created in the time I been a member of RF I post toward other religious or spiritual people, only when I want an answer from non believers will I directly ask them a question in OP.
So in 99% of all I said here it is Atheists who chose to look at my OP and give answer they see as right. That is not where I reacted. I do react if the person tell me my belief is wrong, if they them self has no experience or knowledge of the teaching I cultivate.

So to an other thing. YES I can be wrong, YES my understand of the truth is not fully realized yet. Meaning I know I do not hold the full truth. That is why I write, in my understanding in mostly all my OP or reply.

My target for this OP is the constant negative answers or questions from a few members.
It means of 99% of all non believers in RF I have no problem at all. Probably it is 3 or 4 people I react negative toward when they reply.

So no it is not a big deal. But enough so that it should be looked into even from admin

 

[stvdv]

In the week or so since I come back to RF I noticed even more negativity then before I left.

I see karma; action and reaction. That is nature, it's unavoidable. IF you see a negative reply, be asured that it's just a reaction what was done to him

 

[Spirit of Light]

I see karma; action and reaction. That is nature, it's unavoidable. IF you see a negative reply, be asured that it's just a reaction what was done to him

I know some of the negativity arise from karma yes

 

[stvdv]

In the week or so since I come back to RF I noticed even more negativity then before I left.

And yes I know some religious people try to hard to convert you

I would not belittle this. This is as bad as the negativity you speak about in the OP. The other side of the same coin.