How Do We Know Absolute Truth?

[PureX]

I don't believe that I can know an absolute truth. And that doesn't seem to bother me. In fact, I'm quite puzzled by people who have obviously invested a great deal of time and effort in convincing themselves that they "own" some absolute truth or other. I don't understand their need, nor their fear of the possibility of thier not really owning what they think they own.

What's the big deal about "absolutes", anyway? Can anyone explain why they matter?

 

[Katzpur]

I don't believe there is such a thing. At least, I've never seen evidence of any absolute truth.

Since you're an atheist, don't you believe that "There is no God" is an absolute truth?

 

[PetShopBoy88]

Since you're an atheist, don't you believe that "There is no God" is an absolute truth?

Atheists don't believe that there is no God; atheists believe in nothing. It's a negative belief (ie, an abscence of belief), not a postive belief (ie, belief that no god exists). At least, that's how a large number of atheists view atheism.

 

[UnTheist]

Atheists don't believe that there is no God; atheists believe in nothing. It's a negative belief (ie, an abscence of belief), not a postive belief (ie, belief that no god exists). At least, that's how a large number of atheists view atheism.

Two main types of Atheism exist:

Weak Atheist: Doesn't believe a God exists, but doesn't reject the possibility of one existing. This view is very similar to Agnosticism

Strong Atheism: 'God Doesn't Exist'

 

[YmirGF]

How do we know absolute truth? I understand how we know conditional truth -- the various scientific methods. But exactly how do we know absolute truth?

I have no idea Phil. I do not subscribe to what I consider the nonsense of so-called "absolute" truth. I am rather smitten by the concept of "probable" truth however.

It is probably true to say that all living beings have separate viewpoints of reality. Determining this with 100% accuracy would be rather difficult, although it would be routine to develop a working model that would tend to support the premise. There are of course purely physical absolutes such as we all need to eat, sleep, breathe and all that lives is born to die.

Things like the existence of "god" are probable truths. There is no possible way, currently available in physical terms, to prove the existence of a non-physical entity. That does not mean the clever scientists may not, one day, be able to do just that.

Even something like Oneness or the Tao are also suspect, as again, there is currently no way to prove the existence of either. They probably are symbolic representations of reality, but again, try to prove them to another.

If this answer fails to make the grade I will leave the question to others whose understanding is enclosed within the self-imposed limitations of their absolutes.

 

[Katzpur]

Copycat, Phil! :slap:

I already asked that one. How can we find truth?

My OP was:

Assuming that there is such a thing as absolute truth (as I personally believe there is), how does God, assuming He exists (as I believe He does) expect us to find it? Since it seems to me that God would want us to come to a know what is true and what isn't, why do we get supposedly conflicting answers when we ask Him for guidance. If we are sincere in our search for truth, why do you suppose God isn't giving all of us the same answers?

 

[Kungfuzed]

There very likely is an absolute truth. The problem is having absolute certanty of it. Some people are quite certian about things that aren't true at all. Others are reasonably certain that something is reasonably true. But I don't think anyone can be absoutely certain something is absolutely true because of all the philosophical headgames we play with each other. I'm fairly certain that there is no elephant standing on my printer but one of you might say that the elephant is invisible, and weightless. Or that I lack the ability to observe it. It may be an absolute truth that there is no elephant on my printer but headgames like that won't allow me to claim absolute certainty.

 

[gnostic]

I know for sure there are "absolute truths", and they have nothing to do with spiritual or god.

I have 1 head (I better hope so), 5 digits in each hand, and 5 toes in each foot, because I have counted them. There's my absolute truth.

See?

One, two, three, f....er? ...oh, yes...four, five.

(Boy, that was embarrassing. )

 

[Nanda]

Two main types of Atheism exist:

Weak Atheist: Doesn't believe a God exists, but doesn't reject the possibility of one existing. This view is very similar to Agnosticism

Strong Atheism: 'God Doesn't Exist'

Actually, it's more like this:

Weak atheists do not believe in god. (passive)
Strong atheists believe there is no god. (active)

Since you're an atheist, don't you believe that "There is no God" is an absolute truth?

Not at all. I can't say that there is definatively no god. I firmly believe that there isn't, but I can't prove or disprove it either way, and it would be incredibly arrogant of me to presume that my belief is absolute truth based on that. :/

 

[UnTheist]

Actually, it's more like this:

Weak atheists do not believe in god. (passive)
Strong atheists believe there is no god. (active)

That's exactly what I said

 

[Nanda]

That's exactly what I said

I think it's the "but doesn't reject the possibility of one existing" that I don't agree with.

 

[UnTheist]

I think it's the "but doesn't reject the possibility of one existing" that I don't agree with.

Some don't reject the possibility of one existing. Some find the idea of God pointless. Some find it impossible to prove the existence of a God, therefore there is no justification. Some don't care enought about God to think about it. And some haven't made up their minds about it. Those all fall into Weak Atheism

 

[PetShopBoy88]

Weak atheists do not believe in god. (passive)
Strong atheists believe there is no god. (active)

Exactly. Great paraphrase.

 

[Nanda]

Some don't reject the possibility of one existing. Some find the idea of God pointless. Some find it impossible to prove the existence of a God, therefore there is no justification. Some don't care enought about God to think about it. And some haven't made up their minds about it. Those all fall into Weak Atheism

Ok, I see what you're saying - though I wouldn't consider someone who hasn't made up their minds about it a weak atheist, I would consider them an agnostic (and no, I'm not saying that all agnostics are wishy-washy people who can't make up their minds). I just don't want us to fall into the trap of saying that weak atheists and agnostics are indistinguishable - there is a difference. (I'm also not trying to imply that that is what you were saying.)

 

[UnTheist]

Ok, I see what you're saying - though I wouldn't consider someone who hasn't made up their minds about it a weak atheist, I would consider them an agnostic (and no, I'm not saying that all agnostics are wishy-washy people who can't make up their minds). I just don't want us to fall into the trap of saying that weak atheists and agnostics are indistinguishable - there is a difference. (I'm also not trying to imply that that is what you were saying.)

One that hasn't made up their mind can be either a Weak Atheist or Agnostic. But Weak Atheism does have alot more definition
There is a similarty between Weak Atheism and Agnosticism

They both claim they don't know if God exists
They both don't reject the possiblity of God existing
Weak Atheism and 'Non-Practicing Agnosticism' Both can say the concept of God is meaningless.
And of course Agnostic Atheism, which implies that they don't know, and they don't care.

And if you were to take the difference between:
Strong Agnosticism: We can't know, and we never will
Weak Agnosticism: Currently unknown, but not unknowable.

 

[Nanda]

They both claim they don't know if God exists
They both don't reject the possiblity of God existing

No, see, this is where we disagree. As I understand it, Agnostics claim they don't know if god exists, and don't reject the possibility of god existing. Weak Atheists lack a belief in god. These are two seperate things.

This had gone off-topic, maybe we should start a new thread for this discussion?

 

[UnTheist]

No, see, this is where we disagree. As I understand it, Agnostics claim they don't know if god exists, and don't reject the possibility of god existing. Weak Atheists lack a belief in god. These are two seperate things.

This had gone off-topic, maybe we should start a new thread for this discussion?

You can make it if you want.
But to clarify, it doesn't say anywhere in the definition of Weak Atheism that they reject the possibility. They do not explicitly accept the belief that "God does not exist" that Strong Atheism claims

 

[Nanda]

You can make it if you want.
But to clarify, it doesn't say anywhere in the definition of Weak Atheism that they reject the possibility. They do not explicitly accept the belief that "God does not exist" that Strong Atheism claims

Well, if it's just going to be you and me going back and forth, maybe it isn't necessary. Especially considering what a quibbling little detail it is.

 

[UnTheist]

Well, if it's just going to be you and me going back and forth, maybe it isn't necessary. Especially considering what a quibbling little detail it is.

Agreed. Peace

 

[Katzpur]

Not at all. I can't say that there is definatively no god. I firmly believe that there isn't, but I can't prove or disprove it either way, and it would be incredibly arrogant of me to presume that my belief is absolute truth based on that. :/

I'll go along with that, i.e. your statement that neither the existence or non-existence of God can be proven. I have heard atheists state -- as if it were a fact -- that there is no God. And to them, I would reply, "Okay, but don't tell me that there is also no absolute truth, because those statements cannot both be true."