How do Jews feel about their theology seeming to be outdated?

[metis]

Are the Jews that live in New York delighted that they're not obligated to keep the Sabbath, since you say it's only for those living in Eretz Yisrael?

I did not say nor imply that.

The issue of those of us living in the diaspora relates to our dispersion whereas we still had the obligation of keeping Shabbat. Since travel by ship from Europe to the Americas, for example, did not involve a change in which day was which, it was not difficult for us to keep the same pattern.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

I don't see where that member said that at all. Please show me what words were actually said that you think equals that.

The statement was:

It makes not one iota of difference in this case since the day being referred to only had its original meaning as it applied to eretz Israel and not any other location.

 

[JacobEzra.]

So which day would your smart phone tell you it was if you were standing on the International Date Line? Moving just a nanometer east or west would change your calendar day a whole 24 hours.

My phone would tell me which ever day it would be.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

And the riddle requires that the Jews meeting up half way around the world, met at a place that had no other Jews there, that let them know when Shabbat was starting at local time.

In other words, the riddle requires a set of contrived circumstances that could never exist in real life. And then you wonder how Judaism in reality has survived and kept Shabbat??

Contrived riddles don't set policy.

I can only testify that I was intensely overwhelmed by the mathematically beautiful and inescapable logic for months. And I was so devastated by the argument that I renounced my faith in Seventh-day Adventism. The Tanakh says nothing about a who gets there first policy. So I've concluded that God purposely planned and inserted obsolescence into the Old Covenant. As I see it, an inevitable radical transition was to surface eventually and it indisputably fits the New Testament paradigm perfectly.

Amending the Tanakh doesn't work for me.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

^ It's like someone trying to peddle Miller Lite in Napa Sonoma ...

 

[Akivah]

I was intensely overwhelmed by the mathematically beautiful and inescapable logic for months and so devastated by the argument that I renounced my faith in Seventh-day Adventism. The Tanakh says nothing about a who gets there first policy. So I've concluded that God purposely planned and inserted obsolescence into the Old Covenant and the inevitable radical transition that would surface eventually indisputably fits the New Testament paradigm perfectly.

The Tanakh doesn't say a lot of stuff. That's why G-d told us to listen to our sages for how to apply His Law to varying facts and circumstances.

 

[metis]

Amending the Tanakh doesn't work for me.

I would agree with you in that, if it doesn't work for you, then obviously maybe it's best not to use it.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

The Tanakh doesn't say a lot of stuff. That's why G-d told us to listen to our sages for how to apply His Law to varying facts and circumstances.

When did G-d admit that there are contradictions in the Tanakh?

 

[rosends]

As I've already explained, the mathematical theorem is based on the definition of the Sabbath as given in the Tanakh. Judaism has no power over the obvious meaning of that text. Furthermore, weren't all my quotes from the Torah?

The tanach is not the same as the torah and taking a translated verse in vacuo and trying to derive a conclusion from it is foolish.

The mathematical theorem is based on a misunderstanding you have about Jewish law. You have no power over the meaning of what the text says as it exists in the cultural and theological context of those to whom it was given.

 

[Tumah]

Thank you. It was kind of you to acknowledge that conclusions depend upon presuppositions and that my reasoning "is not inherently wrong." The fault, you affirm, lies in my premise. And just so everyone understands our agreement, that premise you reject is how the Sabbath is defined in your Tanakh.

But thankfully, my Tanach comes with a handy-dandy guide for making sure everything works out a-ok. So worry not, we're doing just fine!

 

[rosends]

I can only testify that I was intensely overwhelmed by the mathematically beautiful and inescapable logic for months. And I was so devastated by the argument that I renounced my faith in Seventh-day Adventism. The Tanakh says nothing about a who gets there first policy. So I've concluded that God purposely planned and inserted obsolescence into the Old Covenant. As I see it, an inevitable radical transition was to surface eventually and it indisputably fits the New Testament paradigm perfectly.

Well them you had better renounce your Judaism!

 

[Akivah]

When did G-d admit that there are contradictions in the Tanakh?

I'm not aware of any verse that says that. In addition, that isn't something that I said either.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

All those who believe that this is an honest thread (rather than a disingenuous, sophomoric taunt) warranting good-faith discussion raise your hand.

...​

Good.​

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

The tanach is not the same as the torah and taking a translated verse in vacuo and trying to derive a conclusion from it is foolish.

The mathematical theorem is based on a misunderstanding you have about Jewish law. You have no power over the meaning of what the text says as it exists in the cultural and theological context of those to whom it was given.

Catholics make a similar same claim about the New Testament gospels and epistles. Nevertheless, there's an abundance of evidence that the New Testament Scriptures do not mean what the Catholic Church says it means.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Catholics make a similar same claim about the New Testament gospels and epistles. Nevertheless, there's an abundance of evidence that the New Testament Scriptures do not mean what the Catholic Church says it means.

Nevertheless this is just your opinion

 

[metis]

Catholics make a similar same claim about the New Testament gospels and epistles. Nevertheless, there's an abundance of evidence that the New Testament Scriptures do not mean what the Catholic Church says it means.

It seems that you like to state your opinions as if they're slam-dunk facts.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

It seems that you like to state your opinions as if they're slam-dunk facts.

That's precisely what years of learning and experience compressed to a short statement sounds like.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

...taking a translated verse in vacuo and trying to derive a conclusion from it is foolish.
... You have no power over the meaning of what the text says as it exists in the cultural and theological context of those to whom it was given.

Specifying how the Sabbath might have been determined in ancient times for hypothetical residents living 50 miles west and 50 miles east of Jerusalem might turn into a charade sounding even more foolish.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

It is obviously my hope that some learned Rabbi will tell me if hypothetical Jewish travelers or Jewish residents living 50 miles west and 50 miles east of Jerusalem in ancient times were required to keep the Sabbath and how the Sabbath should have been determined at these locations.

 

[rosends]

Specifying how the Sabbath might have been determined in ancient times for hypothetical residents living 50 miles west and 50 miles east of Jerusalem might turn into a charade sounding even more foolish.

It might, but it never did.