How certain are you about your belief?

[InvestigateTruth]

Unfortunately you are wrong. We could still be in an elaborate simulation run by aliens or something

Yes, maybe. But I mean, one may think she or he knows for a fact, but could be wrong.

 

[Apostle John]

For such confident mindsets, Do you believe you can still learn more? Perhaps you are confident in a "firm foundation", but see possibility of building more? Do you feel value in listening - honestly listening to learn more - to the viewpoints of those who have had different experiences, a different foundation and so currently different beliefs than you?

Yes, one day in the future I do believe more will be learned but not from those who have different beliefs to me. The first man Adam was cleverer than all the people of today.

 

[sayak83]

Yes, maybe. But I mean, one may think she or he knows for a fact, but could be wrong.

The issue is, since we can never completely rule the possibility that what we experience is an elaborate hallucination, the idea of certainty cannot be objectively defended.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The issue is, since we can never completely rule the possibility that what we experience is an elaborate hallucination, the idea of certainty cannot be objectively defended.

True, as long as you are talking about experiences such as experiencing gods or spirits.

 

[sayak83]

True, as long as you are talking about experiences such as experiencing gods or spirits.

No. This is true even for day to day things like your ordinary life experiences. Theoretically there is no real way to demonstrate that all that you experience is actually real or (like in the Matrix) an elaborate hallucination created through some means in which you are enmeshed. Given this fact, one cannot objectively claim 100% certainty regarding any experience as pointing to truth whatsoever.

 

[Trailblazer]

When the truth becomes as clear as the Sun in the clear sky at noon. Then you know for a fact. Then Faith will be No more guesses, no more feelings and emotions.

When the truth becomes as clear as the Sun in the clear sky at noon then you know it with absolute certitude, but you no not know it for a fact since facts can be proven but no religious belief can be proven as a fact. That is the difference between #2 and #7.

Fact: something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

Fact: a thing that is known or proved to be true.
what is a fact - Google Search

 

[Trailblazer]

Regardless what your religious belief, or faith is, including atheism even, my question for you is, how certain are you that your belief is certainly true?

Please choose an option closest.

This Poll is anonymous

I feel certain that my Belief is absolutely true.​

That is the closest of your options but not exact, since it is not a feeling, it is inner certitude.

I am certain that my Belief is absolutely true.​

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Just think about the thought process needed to get to the conclusion that smoking causes cancer. Think about all the inductive (and therefore imperfect) reasoning, all the points of uncertainty, all the points where an alternative explanation could be made up to fit the facts.

There's quite a bit of doubt and uncertainty there. The difference between "smoking causes cancer" and "no gods exist" isn't that "no gods exist" is subject to significantly greater uncertainty; the difference is that theists have conditioned our society to demand a much higher level of support for "no gods exist" than for claims that they aren't religiously invested in.

Yes, and here is the next level of possible observation and understanding. We can observe and understand what you say. We can then ask: Is that unique to theists in that it is a special behavior, that can't be found in a general sense in non-theists?
In other words, is the idea of God a special case or are there at least one similar notion to be found among the non-theists?

So as a former atheist, I learned that it is not really about atheism. It is about the justification of what matters to being a human and that is not unique to theists and they are not the only one, who in the end claim objective authority over what it means to be a human.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

OK, so how certain are you about this you are saying? That's the question in OP, and you can choose.

Well, it's a fact that humans tend to invent religions. We observe it to happen. Facts are a certain as it gets.

So, considering all of them make similar magical claims, and all of them demand "faith" because no verifiable evidence exists for any, it stands to reason that all are the product of human imagination and superstitions.

We can off course never have any certainty -one way or the other- when it comes to unfalsifiable and unverifiable claims, off course.
But since such claims are literally potentially infinite in number, for all practical intents and purposes we just consider such claims to be false.
Basically, when you tell me about your gods, I consider them as imaginary as when I tell you about my undetectable pet dragon.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes, one day in the future I do believe more will be learned but not from those who have different beliefs to me.

If you would reject any and all human knowledge that was discovered / invented by people with different beliefs then you, then you might as well go live in a cave without any technology.

 

[Apostle John]

If you would reject any and all human knowledge that was discovered / invented by people with different beliefs then you, then you might as well go live in a cave without any technology.

I strongly suspect that is more likely to happen to you in the near future than me.

 

[idea]

Yes, one day in the future I do believe more will be learned but not from those who have different beliefs to me. The first man Adam was cleverer than all the people of today.

"not from those who have different beliefs"?

With everyone, we share some beliefs, and do not share others. What if someone disagrees on religion but agrees with politics? What if they disagree on politics, but shares religious beliefs? What if they disagree on religion and politics but share your taste in food/music/health/favorite movies? If they are more physically fit than you, would you allow them to teach you how to exercise? They could teach you how to cook some special food? Teach you how to play a musical instrument? In school and through life, did you not learn anything - math, reading, art - from teachers with different beliefs?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I strongly suspect that is more likely to happen to you in the near future than me.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

 

[PureX]

What is the point of claiming to believe something that we don't presume to be true? And why presume something to be true when we don't know that it is?

I'm sensing a lot of self-deception, here. But to what end? What do we get out of deceiving ourselves into a position of certainty that we don't have a right to? What is this false certainty giving us?

 

[Apostle John]

"not from those who have different beliefs"?

I was talking about one day in the future, in heaven. Those that have different beliefs to me won’t be there.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

I strongly suspect it has something to do with the time of the end. Christians believe it to be the end of the world when in fact it means end of an age.

 

[Trailblazer]

I was talking about one day in the future, in heaven. Those that have different beliefs to me won’t be there.

So what you are saying is that only Christians who believe like you will be going to heaven?
What is the basis for that belief?

 

[Trailblazer]

I was talking about one day in the future, in heaven. Those that have different beliefs to me won’t be there.

I have a couple of Baha'i jokes I heard years ago that I want to share with you. The second joke is an inside joke.

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. "Heaven," St. Peter says, "is like a huge mansion, with lots of rooms in it. Here, for example, is the room where all of the Jews stay." He opens a door and lets him look inside, where a great many Jews are living.

"Over here," St. Peter says, "is where the Muslims stay." Again, he opens the door and lets the Baha'i look in for a few minutes. "This next room is for the Buddhists." Again, he is shown a room full of people. This goes on for a time, until St. Peter suddenly urges him to remain quiet, and they tiptoe past one more door. Once they're past it, the Baha'i asks, "What's in there, and why do we have to be so quiet?"

"Ah," St. Peter says. "That's where the Christians live. They like to think they're the only ones up here."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. To make this short, I'll just say he goes through the same deal as in the previous joke, except he gets to see the Christians. Finally, they come to one last door, which St. Peter opens. "This was built for the Baha'is," he says. But when the Baha'i looks in, he finds that the room is empty!

"Oh no!" he cries. "This can't be! How can I be the only Baha'i here??"

"Calm down," St. Peter says. "The Baha'is are all off travel teaching in hell."

 

[Apostle John]

I have a couple of Baha'i jokes I heard years ago that I want to share with you. The second joke is an inside joke.

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. "Heaven," St. Peter says, "is like a huge mansion, with lots of rooms in it. Here, for example, is the room where all of the Jews stay." He opens a door and lets him look inside, where a great many Jews are living.

"Over here," St. Peter says, "is where the Muslims stay." Again, he opens the door and lets the Baha'i look in for a few minutes. "This next room is for the Buddhists." Again, he is shown a room full of people. This goes on for a time, until St. Peter suddenly urges him to remain quiet, and they tiptoe past one more door. Once they're past it, the Baha'i asks, "What's in there, and why do we have to be so quiet?"

"Ah," St. Peter says. "That's where the Christians live. They like to think they're the only ones up here."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. To make this short, I'll just say he goes through the same deal as in the previous joke, except he gets to see the Christians. Finally, they come to one last door, which St. Peter opens. "This was built for the Baha'is," he says. But when the Baha'i looks in, he finds that the room is empty!

"Oh no!" he cries. "This can't be! How can I be the only Baha'i here??"

"Calm down," St. Peter says. "The Baha'is are all off travel teaching in hell."

It’s good you describe them as jokes and not realistic. Is baha a kind of laughter? Not to be taken seriously?

 

[Trailblazer]

It’s good you describe them as jokes and not realistic. Is baha a kind of laughter? Not to be taken seriously?

They are just jokes because nobody knows what heaven will be like.
However, there might be some truth embedded in those jokes.
No, the Baha'i Faith is not a joke, it is real, and I think it should be taken seriously.