1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Dec 30, 2020.

  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    An individual being a good person has nothing to do with the Jesus or Bahulah being the Messiah.
     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Why do you think Jesus also didn't come in the station of the spirit?
     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Jesus was not just a good man, Jesus is God.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  4. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,022
    Ratings:
    +6,167
    Religion:
    Judaism
    What I'm saying is labeling him Glory of God may have influenced his actions and undermines the value of the prophecies that are solely depending on his assignment of this name, Baha'u'llah.
    If Baha'u'llah fulfilled the prophecies, then the fact that his name means Glory of God is of lesser importance.

    I don't know. I'm just focusing on the prophecies in Tanach that are claimed to have been fulfilled by Baha'u'llah. Are the verses messianic? Do they clearly identify Baha'u'llah and no one else? Were they actually fulfiled by Baha'u'llah or was it just a coincidence?
     
  5. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,022
    Ratings:
    +6,167
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Because the way that Jesus is described in the NT does not encourage Torah observance.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Peace will happen during the 1000 year reign of Christ. Did Jesus Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies in the Old Testament? | Jewish Voice

    Israel will be fully regathered when Jesus returns.

    Jesus was the son of David legally through solomon and biologically through Nathan.
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    26,592
    Ratings:
    +7,754
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Talk is cheap. Show me the actual verses that say that there will be a Messiah that rules on earth and that peace will be established during his lifetime. Either that or I will consider that a belief not supported by scripture.
    Talk is cheap. Show me the actual verses that say that there is any specific number of Jews who will return to the homeland and show me the verses that say when they will return.
    Talk is cheap. Show me the actual verses that say that the Messiah is a man called David.

    The hundred-dollar question is who is David within the context of the scriptures, and that involves interpretation of scriptures, not assumptions of who the Messiah will be according to who you already believe he is, according to what you were taught and/or how you interpreted the scriptures. There can be more than one interpretation of the same scriptures and there is no reason to think your interpretation is correct.

    Baha’is do not believe that the throne of David refers to a man who will rule on a throne on earth. Prove me wrong.

    “THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90

    “LEND an ear unto the song of David. He saith: ‘Who will bring me into the Strong City?’ The Strong City is ‘Akká, which hath been named the Most Great Prison, and which possesseth a fortress and mighty ramparts… Peruse that which Isaiah hath spoken in His Book. He saith: ‘Get thee up into the high mountain, O Zion, that bringest good tidings; lift up thy voice with strength, O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings. Lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah: “Behold your God! Behold the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him.”’ This Day all the signs have appeared. A great City hath descended from heaven, and Zion trembleth and exulteth with joy at the Revelation of God, for it hath heard the Voice of God on every side.”
    Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 90-91
    Dream on. You have showed me nothing because all you have are beliefs and personal opinions. You make a lot of claims but you provide no verses to back up those claims.

    I do not debate beliefs and personal opinions. I need evidence, which is in the actual scriptures.
    When I debate with Christians those are honest debates because they provide the scriptures to back up their beliefs.

    As my mother used to say: “if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.”
    If you cannot back up your beliefs with scriptures, don’t engage in a debate.
     
    #587 Trailblazer, Jan 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Jesus observed the Torah, but it wasn't mandatory for gentiles.
     
  9. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,022
    Ratings:
    +6,167
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Hmmmmm.... based on our previous conversations, I'm not sure that you would know whether or not Jesus observed Torah.

    But, what I said was "The way that Jesus is described in the NT does not encourage Torah observance."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    All Israel Shall Be Saved! The End Times Salvation of Israel

    Israel will be fully regathered only when Jesus returns.
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Jesus came to save us and teach us how to live, not to teach people to be Jewish if it wasn't in their convictions.
     
  12. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,022
    Ratings:
    +6,167
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Therefore: you don't really know if Jesus observed the Torah. Right?

    Please be honest.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Jesus observed the Torah but there's no need for Gentile Christians to follow it. Jesus Taught Against the Law of Moses | Jewish Voice

     
  14. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,022
    Ratings:
    +6,167
    Religion:
    Judaism
    How would you know if Jesus observed Torah? You don't have the knowledge to identify his transgressions.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    The parents of Jesus took him to the temple. Why would Jesus observing the Torah be wrong?
     
  16. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,022
    Ratings:
    +6,167
    Religion:
    Judaism
    It doesn't mean he didn't transgress. Nor does it mean he didn't encourage people to transgress.
    I didn't say that.

    What I said was: "The way that Jesus is described in the NT does not encourage Torah observance."

    You said: "Jesus observed Torah."

    I said: "How do you know? You don't have the knowledge to identify a transgression."

    So, please be honest, you don't have the knowledge to determine whether or not Jesus observed Torah, nor do you have the knowledge to identify his transgressions?
     
  17. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Anyone could call themselves the Glory of God. Similar terms like the Glory of God, the Messiah, and the Promised One, don't mean that Baha'ullah was the Messiah.
     
  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Jesus was a first century Jew. He observed Torah. Are you saying that you believe Jesus sinned because of the Bible story that sounds like Jesus ran away from his parents?
     
  19. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    9,022
    Ratings:
    +6,167
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Ok ...
    How do you know?
    Nope.
     
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Why wouldn't a first century Jew observe Torah? Jesus observing the Torah wouldn't have been a transgression. Jesus Taught Against the Law of Moses | Jewish Voice

    Jesus wasn't against the Old Covenant, it's just not necessary for Gentile believers.
     
Loading...