How Can God's Love Be Unconditional?

[cardero]

Swings back and forth? Talk about misunderstanding.

Look a mother has unconditional love for her children. But a child who is insistant on touching fire; one wouldn't be surprised if his mother slapped him. The inherent choice given to human beings allows them to do wrong. And that wrong must be punished until humans rehabilitate themselves. As long as hell is not eternal and is only remedial the love is unconditional.

I’m not sure if the parental examples are applicable to GOD’s unconditional love. There is no demonstrative indication that GOD perceives us as children or corrects any wrong deeds that we do in real time or reveals any expressions that He is pleased or displeased with any of our actions. The belief that GOD judges and punishes wrong deeds after one has passed is a theory that seems to pacify good doers that bad people will eventually get what they deserve. It is very difficult for humans to understand GOD’s unconditional love and there is no one today that is practicing it. Humans are very expectant of the love that they express and very particular of the kind of love they receive and accept and it is these traits that are often passed on to their gods.

 

[darkendless]

Swings back and forth? Talk about misunderstanding.

Look a mother has unconditional love for her children. But a child who is insistant on touching fire; one wouldn't be surprised if his mother slapped him. The inherent choice given to human beings allows them to do wrong. And that wrong must be punished until humans rehabilitate themselves. As long as hell is not eternal and is only remedial the love is unconditional.

Slapping a child is a little different to torture but i can see where you are comming from. All acounts i've ever heard at school of hell was if you don't believe in God and play his twisted game you're going to suffer forever.

 

[blackout]

Did you miss the part where I mentioned the Christian hell being wrong?
Just who the hell is my fellow christians? Do you not see that I see that is where the misconception came from?
I am speaking to anyone who will listen. I do not champion the Christian Error er Era!
Maybe you should read some of the other posts I have made, if one reads them and thinks I champion Christianity, needs to relearn how to read.

Ok, so fine.

I do not know who the hell your fellow christians are.

There was no need to be rude.

(and no, I did not miss the part where you said the christian hell was wrong...
thus the reason for my last post.)

EDIT:
And you did say "Where ALL OF YOU go wrong".
Perhaps I missed the part which explained who the hell "ALL OF YOU" refers to.

 

[Ronald]

"ALL OF YOU" means the ones who believe God sends people to an ever burning hell!
Hell of the Torah is she'ol the place of burial of the dead.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

Okay let me get one thing clear. I does not matter whether you heard Eternal Hell at school. I do not beleive in it so you can go ahead and argue eternal hell with someone else. The torture, as I have explained on the Eternal Hell thread, is:

According to my understanding in the afterlife the same soul will continue in a different "body". In the afterlife our conscience will increase. So in this world we do not see fire but smoke and assume there to be fire nearby. But that is not the same as seeing the fire. In the hereafter we will see the fire ... i.e. the truth will become so blatently apparent to us that even the most dishonest will be forced to accept it. And the realization of the truth to such a great degree will be hell for the dishonest and heaven for the honest. And as time progresses truth will become as evident as the belief in fire after you put your hand inside it.

Like a handicapped child who only realizes what he/she lacks once he/she grows up. As we grow the hell-bound who did nothing to prepare themselves for death realize their handicap in the hereafter and this becomes their hell. The truth hits them hard. The ones who did prepare themselves for the after-life realize the opposite.

Cardero I think I if I can prove God loves us like parents love children (in fact much much more) and cares for our spiritual well-being and does whatever He can to better it stopping short of interfering in our ability to choose then we might agree. Because the rest just falls in line.

 

[blackout]

"ALL OF YOU" means the ones who believe God sends people to an ever burning hell!
Hell of the Torah is she'ol the place of burial of the dead.

So what are the religions that teach an eternal (ie, never-ending) hell of suffering
besides Christianity? Just curious.

 

[Ronald]

You'll need to search that answer out! I just rail against it. That and immortal soul, there is no such thing.

 

[McBell]

You'll need to search that answer out! I just rail against it. That and immortal soul, there is no such thing.

Really?
And you know this how?
And what of the people who flat out state you are wrong?

 

[Ronald]

Really?
And you know this how?
And what of the people who flat out state you are wrong?

Talk is cheap! I have the Tanack. What do the people who flat out state I am wrong have?
I believe in Torah, if I am wrong, then I am in the same boat as you. Equal. LOL

 

[Leoben Conoy]

How can the Abrahamic god's love for people be unconditional if he is willing to condemn people to hell for not believing in him?

I've seen people in the past use a word (I'm not sure if it's in the dictionary but it certainly does have its own concept): omnibenevolent. Various sects of Islam (I am not a professional expert on Islam so I don't know everything about it) teach that Allah is "all-compassionate, all-merciful", and I'd say, from my experience, barring the occasional Westboro Baptist Church-like offshoot, that the Protestant sects mostly teach that God and Jesus are love, and God loves everyone.

Here's what I think: if a God exists, there's no reason we should worship him. Just being "god" doesn't mean we should worship him; ants shouldn't worship us humans if they could think, just because we're so incomprehensibly more powerful than they are. If God created the universe, and thus, us, he doesn't require our worship because of that; we shouldn't make thinking machines (once they are built) worship us because we simply created them. And if the Christian God exists, we shouldn't worship him because he says he's perfect; going by what the Bible says about that God, all the symptoms of a psychopathic personality disorder. But, I'm going to go on a whim here and say there's no way I will ever believe such a disgustingly immoral God exists, so it's not a big issue for me about "whether [x] God exists, and if you don't accept him, you're going to hell".

 

[McBell]

Talk is cheap!

Funny you say this since it is all you have....

I have the Tanack.

Wow.
You have cheap talk (your phrase, not mine) that has been written down.
What makes your talk so special?

What do the people who flat out state I am wrong have?

Talk.
But then that is all you have as well.
Which is exactly the point.

I believe in Torah, if I am wrong, then I am in the same boat as you. Equal. LOL

And what boat is it that you assume I am in?

 

[Ronald]

Girls on Trampolines boat? I haven't a clue.
May I ask? Your point is?

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes, Heads, I win. Tails, you lose. But you still have a choice! Yeshua chose wisely. Adam did not.

It seems God wants the obedient children to share eternity with him. To live like the devil and expect to be rewarded for that behavior, is like, expecting Santa Claus. LOL

As is the former.

 

[McBell]

I haven't a clue.

Then perhaps you should stop pretending that you do...

May I ask? Your point is?

The point is that you have absolutely nothing more to present to the table than those you claim are wrong.
So once again I ask:

What makes your hearsay better than their hearsay?
​

 

[blackout]

Then perhaps you should stop pretending that you do...


The point is that you have absolutely nothing more to present to the table than those you claim are wrong.
So once again I ask:

What makes your hearsay better than their hearsay?
​

Did you ever notice,
everybody always seems to think their own chosen hearsay is the right hearsay.

 

[Ronald]

Then perhaps you should stop pretending that you do...


The point is that you have absolutely nothing more to present to the table than those you claim are wrong.
So once again I ask:

What makes your hearsay better than their hearsay?
​

I have not pretended to know anything about your beliefs.
I have stated a belief in Torah & Tanack.
In them there is no "immortal Soul" nor "ever burning Hell."
As long as America has freedom of speach, I will say that my "Hearsay" is the best!
If that chaps your backside, put me on "Ignore"!

Todah Rabah

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Speaking of that...how do you put someone on ignore?


edit--nevermind, found it =)

 

[McBell]

I have not pretended to know anything about your beliefs.
I have stated a belief in Torah & Tanack.
In them there is no "immortal Soul" nor "ever burning Hell."
As long as America has freedom of speach, I will say that my "Hearsay" is the best!
If that chaps your backside, put me on "Ignore"!

Todah Rabah

That's it?
That is all you got to offer from your self proclaimed vastly superior hearsay?

Wow.

 

[darkendless]

I have not pretended to know anything about your beliefs.
I have stated a belief in Torah & Tanack.
In them there is no "immortal Soul" nor "ever burning Hell."
As long as America has freedom of speach, I will say that my "Hearsay" is the best!
If that chaps your backside, put me on "Ignore"!

Todah Rabah

I feel sorry for you, i really do. Thoughts like this make the world a much worse place, everyone for themselves is not God's way.

 

[wlkngwthgod]

How can the Abrahamic god's love for people be unconditional if he is willing to condemn people to hell for not believing in him?

Just because He [is willing to] condemn people to hell doesn't mean He doesn't love them.
& it's more than just believing in God. It's about following Him and living a life He would be proud of.
His love is (literally) out of this world.
It is given to everyone.
But if you don't believe in Him, or if you believe but refuse to follow, you're going to go to Hell.
But He still loves you, and it breaks His heart when you can't join Him.

Just my point of view