How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Skywalker]

Abram was unmarried, without children. He was not breaking a commitment to his family. He was distancing himself from idol worship.

In Matthew 19:29 individuals are being tempted with eternal life to leave their wives and children breaking their commitments.

"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."

The important detail is they are being tempted with a magnificient reward for abandoning their wives and children.

Matthew 10:33-35 doesn't contradict Jesus being the Prince of Peace. Jesus was talking about how belief in the Gospel divides people and people fearing rejection from others.

 

[rosends]

Why are you like that? Why are you so desperately trying to refute Jesus?

Why are you insistent on trying to convince people of a lie? Why are you like that?

 

[rosends]

What Jesus says challenges those who think that the law is enough.

'Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.'

Our 'natural' instinct is to resist evil. The leading of the Holy Spirit is not to resist evil with evil. Which is it to be?

What Jesus says has no value.

 

[dybmh]

The question is who to leave? This refers to people who do not want to accept Jesus and live against God's will. One should leave them. But people who live according to Jesus' will should not be abandoned. Is that a problem for you?

I understand what you're saying. However, I do think it's wrong to forsake ones commiment to family and children for a hundred-fold reward and eternal life.

From a Jewish perspective it is highly suspicious that Jesus is a Jewish Rabbi if he tempted people with reward for breaking up the sanctity of the home. A scriptural source for this can be found in the laws of the sotah (numbers 5:23), where the name of God can be erased for the purpose of maintaining the sanctity of the marriage.

 

[dybmh]

Being infinite doesn't mean you have any creative qualities.

Perhaps we have different definitions of infinte? Infinte includes everything you can think of and more.

Matthew 19:29, read in context, shows that 'forsaken' means 'to send or let away'. A person who lets go houses, brethren, sisters, father, mother, wife, children or lands, for His name's sake, will receive a greater reward - eternal life. You can love all your family, and still do what God calls you to do.

The point is, people do crazy things in the name of love. That's why it's important to have a sense of duty, commitment, that puts limits on what a person will do out of love.

How is Matthew 19:29 any different than any other guru asking their disciple to foresake their husband or wife and children? If the disciple loves their guru, should they foresake their commitment to their spouse and children?

 

[Redemptionsong]

What Jesus says has no value.

Really? What about these words?

'And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.' [Mark 13:1,2]

Prophetic? I would have thought the destruction of the temple would have been of interest to you?

 

[Skywalker]

Really? What about these words?

'And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.' [Mark 13:1,2]

Prophetic? I would have thought the destruction of the temple would have been of interest to you?

Jesus coming before the destruction of the second temple was a fulfillment of the messianic prophecies.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Perhaps we have different definitions of infinte? Infinte includes everything you can think of and more.

The point is, people do crazy things in the name of love. That's why it's important to have a sense of duty, commitment, that puts limits on what a person will do out of love.

How is Matthew 19:29 any different than any other guru asking their disciple to foresake their husband or wife and children? If the disciple loves their guru, should they foresake their commitment to their spouse and children?

To me, Jesus Christ is more than a guru. I'm with the disciple Thomas, who said of the risen Jesus, 'My Lord and my God'. Jesus Christ is worthy of my service, and fellow Christians will feel the same way about their commitment to God in Christ.

So, the question I ask you in reply is, Would you be prepared to fight and die for your country? This would be a commitment that went beyond your commitment to family.

It should not be forgotten that Jesus was constantly testing the commitment of his disciples. Faith in the person of Jesus Christ, and living by grace, is somewhat different to living under the law.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Jesus coming before the destruction of the second temple was a fulfillment of the messianic prophecies.

I agree. Malachi 3:1? Or is that only a reference to his human body?

 

[Wandering Monk]

I would encourage you to read the autobiography of Corrie ten Boom, The Hiding Place.

I know her story. I grew up on it. God didn't love here father and sister enough to save them from the Nazis apparently.

 

[YoursTrue]

I agree. We are all judged by the same God.

Yes, we are. But any religion that teaches that God has a literal burning lake of fire that will burn, hurt and torment people forever is not being used by the one true God that judges all and everything.

 

[YoursTrue]

I would encourage you to read the autobiography of Corrie ten Boom, The Hiding Place.

Naturally you remember Lot. And he was pulled out of Sodom by the angels. He was slow to go on his own.
Genesis 19, NWT:
When he kept lingering, then because of Jehovah’s compassion for him, the men seized hold of his hand and the hand of his wife and the hands of his two daughters, and they brought him out and stationed him outside the city. 17 As soon as they had brought them to the outskirts, he said: “Escape for your life! Do not look behind you and do not stand still in any part of the district! Escape to the mountainous region so that you may not be swept away!”
God can save who He wants to. We have the responsibility and privilege to talk to others about this.

 

[YoursTrue]

What Jesus says challenges those who think that the law is enough.

'Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.'

Our 'natural' instinct is to resist evil. The leading of the Holy Spirit is not to resist evil with evil. Which is it to be?

On the other hand, would I just allow someone to maliciously pluck my eye out? I doubt it. Or how about rape? Would I resist that? Yes, I'd fend if off I could. Frankly, I'd think that would be in compliance with the law of Moses and what Jesus said. Does that mean I should kill someone that someone else told me to kill because of national alliances? Naw, I frankly doubt it. Plus Jesus did not fight, but he left the scene when he thought there would be a violent confrontation, and if he could get away. But he also knew his time came when he was arrested. Before that, when confronted in a argument, such as when the Devil approached him thinking he would tempt Jesus, he told him to go away. And he did.

 

[Batya]

What Jesus says has no value.

I think what Yeshua is saying in all of Matthew 5 has great value, especially considering that he is upholding the Torah, he's definitely not doing away with it. If you look at the principles in that chapter and all of the NT really, he is not attacking the law, but rather returning the focus to the true intent, which was living in a way that is righteous before YHWH.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Maybe you should do what I do, make videos on YouTube where you take a Hebrew text and prove that the Hebrew text supports your views. I would also suggest that you go into the Christian DIR and create a thread where you answer all the historical challenges I have made that I notice Christians either ignore or don't want to answer here.

By the way, I can't believe I forgot, the Book of Mormon has one of its two main goals to convert Jews to Christianity. I would refer any Jew to it that was interested over my own postings.

 

[Skywalker]

I think what Yeshua is saying in all of Matthew 5 has great value, especially considering that he is upholding the Torah, he's definitely not doing away with it. If you look at the principles in that chapter and all of the NT really, he is not attacking the law, but rather returning the focus to the true intent, which was living in a way that is righteous before YHWH.

I think Messianic Judaism can be godly if the intent is to live righteous before YHWH.

 

[Batya]

By the way, I can't believe I forgot, the Book of Mormon has one of its two main goals to convert Jews to Christianity. I would refer any Jew to it that was interested over my own postings.

I personally keep strictly to the teachings of the Bible. If you want

I think Messianic Judaism can be godly if the intent is to live righteous before YHWH.

Yes, and that is the whole intent of the Torah. I think a lot of people don't realize that believing in both Yeshua and following the Torah are not contradictory.

 

[Skywalker]

I personally keep strictly to the teachings of the Bible. If you want

Yes, and that is the whole intent of the Torah. I think a lot of people don't realize that believing in both Yeshua and following the Torah are not contradictory.

Why do you think the Jewish Christian sect changed? I think following Yeshua and the Torah isn't for every believer.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I personally keep strictly to the teachings of the Bible. If you want

Right; well I believe the Bible wasn't translated perfectly and the Book of Mormon helps people to believe in it. So maybe the Book of Mormon could help you in believing the New Testament. At any rate, it wouldn't hurt to read a chapter or two.

 

[Batya]

Why do you think the Jewish Christian sect changed? I think following Yeshua and the Torah isn't for every believer.

What do you mean it changed? I'm quite sure what you're getting with that. And why wouldn't it be for every believer since there is only one way?