How Bad Can Abortions Be If God Sanctions Them?

[THE HOOD APOLOGIST]

.

Came across the following decree in Numbers

Numbers 5:11-21

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Tell the Israelites this: A man’s wife might be unfaithful to him. 13 She might have sexual relations with another man and hide this from her husband. And there might not be anyone to tell him that his wife committed this sin. Her husband might never know about the wrong thing she did, and she might not tell her husband about her sin. 14 But the husband might begin to think that his wife sinned against him, whether she has or not. He might become jealous. He might begin to believe that she is not pure and true to him. 15 If that happens, he must take his wife to the priest. The husband must also take an offering of 8 cups of barley flour. He must not pour oil or incense on the barley flour. This barley flour is a grain offering to the Lord that is given because the husband is jealous. This offering will show that he thinks his wife has been unfaithful to him.

16 “The priest will take the woman before the Lord and make her stand there. 17 Then he will take some special water and put it in a clay jar. He will put some dirt from the floor of the Holy Tent into the water. 18 He will force the woman to stand before the Lord. Then he will loosen her hair and put the grain offering in her hand. This is the barley flour that her husband gave because he was jealous. At the same time, he will hold the clay jar of special water. This is the special water that can bring trouble to the woman.

19 “Then the priest will make the woman promise to tell the truth and say to her: ‘If you have not slept with another man, and if you have not sinned against your husband while you were married to him, then this water that causes trouble will not hurt you. 20 But if you have sinned against your husband—if you had sexual relations with a man who is not your husband—then you are not pure. 21 If that is true, you will have much trouble when you drink this special water. You will not be able to have any children. And if you are pregnant now, your baby will die.

​

In other words, an act of adultery outweighs the worth of an unborn child.

Interesting god, this god of Abraham.

.

I don't know where you got this translation but it's faulty to say the least.
Verse 21 says nothing about children or being pregnant. Its speaks of the woman's thigh rotting and her belly swelling. Children, nor baby, nor dying, is mentioned in this verse in English, nor the more important HEBREW, IN WHICH THE ORIGINAL TEXT WAS WRITTEN IN. Here's the original Hebrew:

יְרֵכֵךְ֙
yə-rê-ḵêḵ your thigh
נֹפֶ֔לֶת
nō-p̄e-leṯ, to rot
וְאֶת־
wə-’eṯ- and
בִּטְנֵ֖ךְ
biṭ-nêḵ your belly
צָבָֽה׃
ṣā-ḇāh. to swell

Nice try though. You get an A for effort

 

[Muffled]

Aleister Crowley wrote the Book of the Law (Liber Legis) supposedly under the guidance of Aiwass, another after him claimed Set guided his pen. It's a good gimmick to claim legitimacy of something or other because a higher power or intelligence told you so, some of the biggest religions have used it.

Unfortunately for that theory God verifies that He inspired it.

 

[Muffled]

It's evidence that can not tell the difference between man's teachings and the teachings of Christ Jesus.

As I said the NIV, CEB, NIVUK, have man's teachings incorporated in them.
But seeing can't tell the difference between them.

I believe that can happen to some extent as God allows but it takes the Holy Spirit to reveal which is which and I have not witnessed Him working in you.

 

[Muffled]

I don't know where you got this translation but it's faulty to say the least.
Verse 21 says nothing about children or being pregnant. Its speaks of the woman's thigh rotting and her belly swelling. Children, nor baby, nor dying, is mentioned in this verse in English, nor the more important HEBREW, IN WHICH THE ORIGINAL TEXT WAS WRITTEN IN. Here's the original Hebrew:

יְרֵכֵךְ֙
yə-rê-ḵêḵ your thigh
נֹפֶ֔לֶת
nō-p̄e-leṯ, to rot
וְאֶת־
wə-’eṯ- and
בִּטְנֵ֖ךְ
biṭ-nêḵ your belly
צָבָֽה׃
ṣā-ḇāh. to swell

Nice try though. You get an A for effort

I believe a swelling belly could be pregnancy.

 

[THE HOOD APOLOGIST]

I believe a swelling belly could be pregnancy.

Sorry, the belly swelling is caused from lying and drinking the bitter water. Nothing else.

 

[iam1me]

.

Came across the following decree in Numbers

Numbers 5:11-21

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Tell the Israelites this: A man’s wife might be unfaithful to him. 13 She might have sexual relations with another man and hide this from her husband. And there might not be anyone to tell him that his wife committed this sin. Her husband might never know about the wrong thing she did, and she might not tell her husband about her sin. 14 But the husband might begin to think that his wife sinned against him, whether she has or not. He might become jealous. He might begin to believe that she is not pure and true to him. 15 If that happens, he must take his wife to the priest. The husband must also take an offering of 8 cups of barley flour. He must not pour oil or incense on the barley flour. This barley flour is a grain offering to the Lord that is given because the husband is jealous. This offering will show that he thinks his wife has been unfaithful to him.

16 “The priest will take the woman before the Lord and make her stand there. 17 Then he will take some special water and put it in a clay jar. He will put some dirt from the floor of the Holy Tent into the water. 18 He will force the woman to stand before the Lord. Then he will loosen her hair and put the grain offering in her hand. This is the barley flour that her husband gave because he was jealous. At the same time, he will hold the clay jar of special water. This is the special water that can bring trouble to the woman.

19 “Then the priest will make the woman promise to tell the truth and say to her: ‘If you have not slept with another man, and if you have not sinned against your husband while you were married to him, then this water that causes trouble will not hurt you. 20 But if you have sinned against your husband—if you had sexual relations with a man who is not your husband—then you are not pure. 21 If that is true, you will have much trouble when you drink this special water. You will not be able to have any children. And if you are pregnant now, your baby will die.

​

In other words, an act of adultery outweighs the worth of an unborn child.

Interesting god, this god of Abraham.

.

Not sure what translation you are using. Here's the NASB, which is one of the more accurate and academic translations:

Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 12 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘If any man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him, 13 and a man has intercourse with her and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband and she is a]">[a]undetected, although she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act, 14 b]">[b]if a spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has defiled herself, or if a spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has not defiled herself, 15 the man shall then bring his wife to the priest, and shall bring as c]">[c]an offering for her one-tenth of an d]">[d]ephah of barley meal; he shall not pour oil on it nor put frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of memorial, a reminder of iniquity.

16 ‘Then the priest shall bring her near and have her stand before the Lord, 17 and the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel; and e]">[e]he shall take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 The priest shall then have the woman stand before the Lord and let the hair of the woman’s head go loose, and place the grain offering of memorial f]">[f]in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy, and in the hand of the priest is to be the water of bitterness that brings a curse. 19 The priest shall have her take an oath and shall say to the woman, “If no man has lain with you and if you have not gone astray into uncleanness, being under the authority of your husband, be g]">[g]immune to this water of bitterness that brings a curse; 20 if you, however, have gone astray, being under the authority of your husband, and if you have defiled yourself and a man other than your husband has had intercourse with you” 21 (then the priest shall have the woman swear with the oath of the curse, and the priest shall say to the woman), “the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people by the Lord’s making your thigh h]">[h]waste away and your abdomen swell;
​

It says nothing about the woman being pregnant or the baby dying. Not sure if this is due to different manuscripts or if the translators took liberty adding their own commentary in the one you cite. This is the version I am familiar with at least.

With the NASB translation there is no reason to think that if a woman were pregnant at this time that the baby would die. The Lord may delay the application of the curse until the child is born, for instance.

At any rate, the purpose of this law seems more for settling a serious domestic dispute than anything else. If a husband has serious doubts concerning his wife, this provides a way to settle it by the woman taking an oath before God stating her innocence (or else by confessing rather than lying to the Lord were she guilty).

It certainly isn't an endorsement to kill ones child if they don't want it.

 

[MJFlores]

.

Came across the following decree in Numbers

Numbers 5:11-21

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Tell the Israelites this: A man’s wife might be unfaithful to him. 13 She might have sexual relations with another man and hide this from her husband. And there might not be anyone to tell him that his wife committed this sin. Her husband might never know about the wrong thing she did, and she might not tell her husband about her sin. 14 But the husband might begin to think that his wife sinned against him, whether she has or not. He might become jealous. He might begin to believe that she is not pure and true to him. 15 If that happens, he must take his wife to the priest. The husband must also take an offering of 8 cups of barley flour. He must not pour oil or incense on the barley flour. This barley flour is a grain offering to the Lord that is given because the husband is jealous. This offering will show that he thinks his wife has been unfaithful to him.

16 “The priest will take the woman before the Lord and make her stand there. 17 Then he will take some special water and put it in a clay jar. He will put some dirt from the floor of the Holy Tent into the water. 18 He will force the woman to stand before the Lord. Then he will loosen her hair and put the grain offering in her hand. This is the barley flour that her husband gave because he was jealous. At the same time, he will hold the clay jar of special water. This is the special water that can bring trouble to the woman.

19 “Then the priest will make the woman promise to tell the truth and say to her: ‘If you have not slept with another man, and if you have not sinned against your husband while you were married to him, then this water that causes trouble will not hurt you. 20 But if you have sinned against your husband—if you had sexual relations with a man who is not your husband—then you are not pure. 21 If that is true, you will have much trouble when you drink this special water. You will not be able to have any children. And if you are pregnant now, your baby will die.

​

In other words, an act of adultery outweighs the worth of an unborn child.

Interesting god, this god of Abraham.

.

I'd rather have this on a more contemporary more comprehensible version of the English Bible.

Numbers 5:11-21 New International Version (NIV)
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

“‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

Senior Skwim, mi amigo? Again, you should use a more understandable bible.

These are rules when an unfaithful wife is suspected of having an affair with another man.
No witnesses, just a suspected affair
Because the wife is twerking like Miley recently.

Where is the abortion, here? Nada.
The bitter water ingredients what are they? Inert - holy water and dust.

It is a curse on the woman - the unfaithful wife.
And this is the Old Testament laws.
And as such, it does not belong to Americans, does not belong to Mexicans, does not belong to Canadians or those who are not Israelites in their time period.
And hey it does not even belong the the ancient Egyptians, not even the Xia Dynasty in China, not even the ancient Mezoamericans, these laws are for the Israelites alone.
Do we have Israelites today? None.
Gal Gadot, the Wonder Woman is not an Israelite? Yes, she is Israeli.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'd rather have this on a more contemporary more comprehensible version of the English Bible.

Numbers 5:11-21 New International Version (NIV)
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

“‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

Senior Skwim, mi amigo? Again, you should use a more understandable bible.

These are rules when an unfaithful wife is suspected of having an affair with another man.
No witnesses, just a suspected affair
Because the wife is twerking like Miley recently.

Where is the abortion, here? Nada.
The bitter water ingredients what are they? Inert - holy water and dust.

It is a curse on the woman - the unfaithful wife.
And this is the Old Testament laws.
And as such, it does not belong to Americans, does not belong to Mexicans, does not belong to Canadians or those who are not Israelites in their time period.
And hey it does not even belong the the ancient Egyptians, not even the Xia Dynasty in China, not even the ancient Mezoamericans, these laws are for the Israelites alone.
Do we have Israelites today? None.
Gal Gadot, the Wonder Woman is not an Israelite? Yes, she is Israeli.

Do you want to go over the verses that you do not understand? It is quite clear that you have no understanding of the euphemisms of the time.

Tell me, a shepherd, who is away from home for extended periods of time has a more than reasonable suspicion that his wife has been cheating on him. He has at least rudimentary math skills. What tipped him off that his wife cheated on him?

 

[OtherSheep]

.
Came across the following decree in Numbers
.

Ex20:18 And all the people perceived the thundering, and the flashes, and the voice of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and all the people feared and stood afar off, 19 and said to Moses, Speak thou to us, and let not God speak to us, lest we die.

Mat19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Mat5:43-45 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ex20:18 And all the people perceived the thundering, and the flashes, and the voice of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and all the people feared and stood afar off, 19 and said to Moses, Speak thou to us, and let not God speak to us, lest we die.

Mat19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Mat5:43-45 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Do you have a point here? You do realize that Moses was mythical I hope so why post this?

 

[OtherSheep]

Do you have a point here? You do realize that Moses was mythical I hope so why post this?

Moses is real, according to Ieseus.
What Where and When are TBD, IMO.

Some say Moses means a son in Egyptian. Some say Moses was an Egyptian. One says "Egypt, My people."
... Some say Moses is Greek Muses.
Some say they don't know, but that they believe Paul's expression of the whole bible (including his words, primarily) is God-inspired. Which (to me) means the definition of Bible is either TBD or was defined by the unmartyred-canonists (who dickered over the thing for millinnea, but were themselves considered to be God-inspired).

People like me believe Ieseus, and use His word (as defined by the two witnesses, Matthew and John) as the yardstick against which all else is judged.

Lately, I've been reading the Nuzi texts, having read many Sumerian texts, and Ugarit texts... which match Greek legends, which match Sanchoniatho's Phoenician History, which match Manetho's Egyptian History...

If you're not looking for Moses, you won't find him.

 

[Trailblazer]

Guess it comes down to how one defines "human being." In the illustration here where do you say it begins?

Sorry, but a bit too long.

.

Human life begins at the moment of conception so abortion is taking a life any time after that.

 

[sooda]

This water was not poison. If she was innocent, she, nor a baby would die. If she was guilty, then her thigh would waste away. Most translations dont say miscarry. But, even if it was miscarry, if she would CONFESS her guilt before drinking, then thered be no need to drink it. Why? Because the PURPOSE behind the drink was NOT to kill the baby or her, it was to serve as a lie detector test.

So, if she did not want harm to come to her, shed best tell the truth instead of the truth comming out the hard way.

Basically, if her belly or baby got harmed, it was not Gods fault, it was HER FAULT.

Hows that for ya, huh?

Who invented the test?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Moses is real, according to Ieseus.
What Where and When are TBD, IMO.

Some say Moses means a son in Egyptian. Some say Moses was an Egyptian. One says "Egypt, My people."
... Some say Moses is Greek Muses.
Some say they don't know, but that they believe Paul's expression of the whole bible (including his words, primarily) is God-inspired. Which (to me) means the definition of Bible is either TBD or was defined by the unmartyred-canonists (who dickered over the thing for millinnea, but were themselves considered to be God-inspired).

People like me believe Ieseus, and use His word (as defined by the two witnesses, Matthew and John) as the yardstick against which all else is judged.

Lately, I've been reading the Nuzi texts, having read many Sumerian texts, and Ugarit texts... which match Greek legends, which match Sanchoniatho's Phoenician History, which match Manetho's Egyptian History...

If you're not looking for Moses, you won't find him.

You should not take what Jesus supposedly said literally. He also mentioned Noah.

 

[OtherSheep]

You should not take what Jesus supposedly said literally. He also mentioned Noah.

Noah is called Deucalion by the Greeks, Hu by the Welsh... you just have to know where to look, and that language changes names.

Apparently Saul of Tarsus didn't take Ieseus seriously, and thought he could Talmudize his way out of the prophecies against all Pharisees... the Pharisee son of a Pharisee is specifically included by his actions... by their fruits, ye shall know them.
A prophecy cannot go unfulfilled, period. Judas was the son of perdition, and even though he repented, that prophecy could not fail, either. Saul tried to prove Ieseus a false prophet... and his hordes of followers don't even know it.

Every word Ieseus spoke confirmed the Covenant... He tells us precisely what God told Moses to say... and overthrows that which was written for hard-hearted people who had plenty of animals to kill for the many sins of their souls. Makes sense that the poor were more willing to follow Ieseus... not having been used to buying their way out of trouble.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Noah is called Deucalion by the Greeks, Hu by the Welsh... you just have to know where to look, and that language changes names.

Apparently Saul of Tarsus didn't take Ieseus seriously, and thought he could Talmudize his way out of the prophecies against all Pharisees... the Pharisee son of a Pharisee is specifically included by his actions... by their fruits, ye shall know them.
A prophecy cannot go unfulfilled, period. Judas was the son of perdition, and even though he repented, that prophecy could not fail, either. Saul tried to prove Ieseus a false prophet... and his hordes of followers don't even know it.

Every word Ieseus spoke confirmed the Covenant... He tells us precisely what God told Moses to say... and overthrows that which was written for hard-hearted people who had plenty of animals to kill for the many sins of their souls. Makes sense that the poor were more willing to follow Ieseus... not having been used to buying their way out of trouble.

No, different cultures have different flood myths. That is all. We know there was never a worldwide flood or one even close to it.

As to unfulfilled prophecies the Bible has plenty of them.

 

[OtherSheep]

No, different cultures have different flood myths. That is all. We know there was never a worldwide flood or one even close to it.

As to unfulfilled prophecies the Bible has plenty of them.

I never said I believe in a world wide flood, did I? What is generally meant by the old historians is the inhabited world... there are other instances in the OT where that's made clear.
Not all prophecies have been fulfilled 'cuz it ain't over yet... most of Revelation remains.
We really don't differ on these two points, SZ... we're just using different dictionaries.

 

[Skwim]

Human life begins at the moment of conception so abortion is taking a life any time after that.

And what of all the times god acts as an abortionist, taking a human life in miscarriages? A crime of omission.

An omission is a failure to act, which generally attracts different legal consequences from positive conduct. In the criminal law, an omission will constitute an actus reus and give rise to liability only when the law imposes a duty to act and the defendant is in breach of that duty.
Source: Wikipedia
​

In other words, god, being all-knowing, would know if a woman was about to miscarry, but does nothing to prevent it, which, being almighty, he could do. Therefore it can be said that god killed a human life. Of course, if you feel that as a loving, merciful, being god has no duty to act in a loving, merciful way, feel free, but I would have to really question your ethics.

And just as an FYI

Miscarriage is the spontaneous loss of a pregnancy before the 20th week. About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. But the actual number is likely higher because many miscarriages occur so early in pregnancy that a woman doesn't realize she's pregnant.
source​

So in as much as 211 million women get pregnant each year throughout the world, god would be responsible for the deaths of 21-42+ million human beings every year.

Hardly a nice guy.

.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I never said I believe in a world wide flood, did I? What is generally meant by the old historians is the inhabited world... there are other instances in the OT where that's made clear.
Not all prophecies have been fulfilled 'cuz it ain't over yet... most of Revelation remains.
We really don't differ on these two points, SZ... we're just using different dictionaries.

You don't seem to understand. There are clear failed prophecies that has a deadline. Those can't be fulfilled.

And no matter how you try to explain Noah's Ark, it was a myth.

 

[Trailblazer]

And what of all the times god takes a human life in miscarriages? A crime of omission.

An omission is a failure to act, which generally attracts different legal consequences from positive conduct. In the criminal law, an omission will constitute an actus reus and give rise to liability only when the law imposes a duty to act and the defendant is in breach of that duty. Source: Wikipedia

First, God is not a human so God is not responsible for legal consequences resulting from human conduct.

Second, God does not cause miscarriages so God is not responsible for them. God is not responsible to act to prevent them so God is not failing to act.

By stark contrast, if humans choose to have an abortion are taking a life, so they are the cause. Why not just own up? They chose to have sex so they are 100% responsible for the consequences. Instead of acting responsibly, some people choose to have an abortion, for selfish reasons.

In other words, god, being all-knowing, would know if a woman was about to miscarry, but does nothing to prevent it, which, being almighty, he could do. Therefore it can be said that god killed a human life. Of course, if you feel that as a loving, merciful, being god has no duty to act in a loving, merciful way, feel free, but I would have to really question your moral principles.

You could say that about anything bad that happens in the world, such as murder or rape. God could prevent it and God failed to prevent it and so God is responsible for it. That is so illogical and unjust. The big huge fat fly in the ointment is that God gave humans free will and humans are responsible for their own decisions and actions. Any court of law knows that. The entire justice system is built upon it. It is just a sad fact that abortion is not considered a crime anymore.

I would really question your logic. Just because God is omnipotent does not mean God has to USE His power to prevent everything in the world that you think is bad. God did not kill someone just because hypothetically, God could prevent someone from being killed. That is illogical but it certainly helps people abdicate responsibility if they can blame God for their own actions committed by virtue of their own free will. If anything is immoral, that is immoral.

And just as an FYI

Miscarriage is the spontaneous loss of a pregnancy before the 20th week. About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. But the actual number is likely higher because many miscarriages occur so early in pregnancy that a woman doesn't realize she's pregnant.
source​

So in as much as throughout the world 211 million women get pregnant each year, god would be responsible for the deaths of 21-42+ million human beings every year.

Hardly a nice guy..

God does not cause miscarriages so God is not responsible for miscarriages. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my entire life.