Azakel
Liebe ist für alle da
Then you would just up and kill someone for talking shi* about your religion and God. How sad and sick.
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Hirsi Ali interview-"everyone is afraid to criticize Islam"
- Thread starter robtex
- Start date
Then you would just up and kill someone for talking shi* about your religion and God. How sad and sick.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Only a primitive savage would murder innocent people over something as petty as criticizing some goofy religious figure. Such barbarism has no place in the modern, civilized world. Isn't it neat how the societies with "blasphemous" rights and freedoms are the most developed and advanced? Hokey mythologies and superstitions only hold us back.
nawab
Active Member
for you it is something petty, not for us. yes they might be developed and advanced but thier crime rates are high, immorality rate is high, Do you think thier would be a Church of Satan or these people like cradle of filth, if Christians follow thier scriptures properly. If you do not have any respect for peoples religion then just keep your mouth shut.
Smoke
Done here.
Religions -- and people -- can earn respect, and they can lose it.
Zephyr
Moved on
I would have no problem eradicating any religion that would kill over something so petty. It is barbaric and bestial to even consider killing just because somebody insults your religion or god. So long as people are willing to kill over this, those people don't deserve life.
I know the train of thought. I used to be a Muslim before I woke up. Once again, any Muslim who would kill because I or somebody else insults Islam, Allah, and Muhammad does not deserve to exist.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Well, the last time I checked Christian were not flocking to become Satanists, lol. I can only imagine where you get your "information" from. Further to this, why is it that Muslims feel compelled to tell Christians how to follow their religion? It would seem to be a terribly arrogant position to take.
It may come as a shock to many Muslims, but Islam does strike many non-Muslims as being unusually petty at times. Any imagined insult becomes a call to arms, be those arms rockets, IED's or unenlightened words on an Internet forum.
Lastly, Hirsi Ali is refreshing because she is very smart, well spoken, is a Muslim and has no problem with being critical of Islam. She has had numerous death threats because of her comments and yet, bless her, she doesn't use bodyguards. I like a fearless lady who makes sense, don't you?
PS: To Robtex: You spelled Hirsi's name wrong in the thread Title. Perhaps it should be changed.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
And why should the rest of the world have to compromise and sacrifice just to humor your backwards attitudes? If I wish to question, criticize or ridicule yours or anyone else's beliefs, I shall do so. And if you want to act like an animal about it, you'll be regarded as such.
Crime is an issue that's far more complex than a simple issue of following hocus pocus voodoo or not.
So? What's wrong with those, exactly? It's their right. As long as they're not harming anyone else, why should it concern you?
Irrelevant. I'm not a Christian. I don't allow my own rights and freedoms to be restricted and controlled by the religious beliefs of others.
My respect is earned, and unfortunately you've presented little that's worthy of it. Also, I do believe I'll speak freely.
robtex
Veteran Member
she is an atheist/ ex-Muslim. Thanks for the heads up on my typo. Originally I think I spelled much of the title of the thread wrong. Don't know where my head was when I typed the thread title.
It is actually important to note she grew-up in Somalia where women are stoned to death for daring to not live under the laws of Allah. She actually had to go into hiding because of the intense hatred the Muslim world has for her. Here is an article talking about her fatwa:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: My life under a fatwa - People, News - The Independent
and here:
Deroy Murdock on Ayaan Hirsi Ali on National Review Online
note the poem from the second link which reads:
To the enemy I say…
You will surely die…
Wherever in the world you go…
Death is waiting for you…
Chased by the knights of DEATH…
Who paint the streets with Red.
carried by Mohammed Bouyeri the man who murdered Van Gogh
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
It's sad that they've nothing to offer the world but fear, hatred, tyranny, death, destruction and darkness.
robtex
Veteran Member
Sufism is a pacifist practice of Islam that is a small minority mostly in Turkey. It was largely popularized by a poet named Rumi who some credit as one of the originators but I don't know enough to know if that is true or not. Most arabs Muslims, just like most Christian Americans are non-violent however, Christians are more aggressive at denouncing violence in the name of Jesus when compared to Muslims. I think that was the point Hirsi Ali was trying to make in the interview in the OP is that Muslims as a group and society at large is too tolerant of violence in the name of Allah.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I didn't mean to come off like I was generalizing or stereotyping all of them. I should've specified that I was referring to the oppressive fundamentalist types that promote such violence. But of course the more moderate ones do seem oddly silent when it comes to condemning their more radical brethren.
This is true of every group, though, isn't it? Most Christians, for instance, are oddly silent when it comes to condemning James Dobson, Pat Robertson or even Fred Phelps.
kai
ragamuffin
which suits the topic of the OP, they are in fact to scared to condemn their more radical brethren in case they are seen as critisizing Islam itself.
Zephyr
Moved on
Well, are James Dobson, Pat Robertson, and Fred Phelps calling for the death of anybody who insults Christianity? If not, we don't have a whole lot of good comparison here.
Thank you Kai, but this is not what I meant!! If she wants to insult Islam and/or Muslims, ok but I can't see her "views" except "views" of an ignorant person. I said it before and I am saying it again, the best thing a Muslim can do is to ignore such trivial persons (let alone killing them) as in most cases some Muslims' responses give them some importance and credit they don't deserve in the first place.
Robtex, you need to re-check your info regarding al Suffiyya.
Smoke
Done here.
Sufis are mystics but are not usually pacifists. Some Sufis have been pacifists, but the majority have no qualms about defending themselves, whether their attackers are Muslims or non-Muslims. Sufis have frequently been targeted by Wahhabis, who generally regard the Sufis' Islam as inauthentic.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I stand corrected. You are right. I was thinking about Irshad Manji who is a Muslim.
What a load of crap.
Are you guys serious?
From wiki:
On NPR's "Talk of the Nation" with Neil Conan, Ali said: "For empirical evidence on whether women and/or the Islamic world is in a crisis, I would like to refer Tony [a caller to the show] to the Arab Human Development report ... in which the writers of that report say the Arab/Islamic world is retarded when it comes to ... three factors: The freedom of the individual, knowledge, and the subjugation of women".[79] Based on the above comment, she has been criticised for making inaccurate judgements and sweeping generalizations about Islam and Muslims[80] as the Arab Human Development Report speaks only of the Arab world and not of the Islamic world.
Hirsi was accused of hypocrisy and fraud[81] because she herself obtained permission to immigrate under false pretences while warning against "mass immigration" in public.[82][citation needed]
In its critique of Ali's autobiography, The Economist called her a "chameleon of a woman", referring to her talent for reinvention and opportunism.[83]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Please, if you guys seriously want to talk about this, don't quote this pathetic hypocrite woman and her alike. You either quote someone ethical or just speak up by your own, and about your own thoughts.
I don't even know why some muslims are bothering themselves to reply to such a thread.
Are you guys serious?
From wiki:
On NPR's "Talk of the Nation" with Neil Conan, Ali said: "For empirical evidence on whether women and/or the Islamic world is in a crisis, I would like to refer Tony [a caller to the show] to the Arab Human Development report ... in which the writers of that report say the Arab/Islamic world is retarded when it comes to ... three factors: The freedom of the individual, knowledge, and the subjugation of women".[79] Based on the above comment, she has been criticised for making inaccurate judgements and sweeping generalizations about Islam and Muslims[80] as the Arab Human Development Report speaks only of the Arab world and not of the Islamic world.
Hirsi was accused of hypocrisy and fraud[81] because she herself obtained permission to immigrate under false pretences while warning against "mass immigration" in public.[82][citation needed]
In its critique of Ali's autobiography, The Economist called her a "chameleon of a woman", referring to her talent for reinvention and opportunism.[83]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Please, if you guys seriously want to talk about this, don't quote this pathetic hypocrite woman and her alike. You either quote someone ethical or just speak up by your own, and about your own thoughts.
I don't even know why some muslims are bothering themselves to reply to such a thread.
kai
ragamuffin
interesting woman
- January 2004: awarded the Prize of Liberty by Nova Civitas, a classical liberal think tank in the Low Countries.[citation needed]
- November 20, 2004: awarded the Freedom Prize of Denmark's Liberal Party,[87] the country's largest party and government leader, "for her work to further freedom of speech and the rights of women".[88] Due to threats from Islamic fundamentalists she was not at the time able to receive it personally;[89] however a year later, November 18, 2005, she traveled to Denmark to thank Prime Minister and party leader Anders Fogh Rasmussen for the prize,[90] and made an unannounced attendance at Liberal Party's 2006 convention to thank party members.[89]
- February 25, 2005: given the Harriet Freezerring Emancipation Prize by Cisca Dresselhuys, editor of the feminist magazine Opzij, "for her work for the emancipation of Islamic women".[citation needed]
- April 18, 2005: listed by American Time Magazine amongst the 100 Most Influential Persons of the World. She was put in the category "Leaders & Revolutionaries".[91]
- March 7, 2005: awarded the Tolerance Prize of Madrid.[92]
- June 2005: awarded the annual European Bellwether Prize by the Norwegian thinktank Human Rights Service. According to HRS, Hirsi Ali is “beyond a doubt, the leading European politician in the field of integration. (She is) a master at the art of mediating the most difficult issues with insurmountable courage, wisdom, reflectiveness, and clarity".[93]
- August 29, 2005: awarded the annual Democracy Prize of the Swedish Liberal People's Party "for her courageous work for democracy, human rights and women's rights." She received the prize at a ceremony at the Swedish Riksdag from the party leader Lars Leijonborg.[94]
- Voted European of the Year for 2006 by the European editors of Reader's Digest magazine. At a ceremony in The Hague on January 23, Hirsi Ali accepted this award from EU Competition Commissioner, Neelie Kroes.[95]
- May 4, 2006: accepted the Moral Courage Award from the American Jewish Committee.[96]
- October 1, 2006: given the civilian prize Glas der Vernunft Kassel, Germany. The organisation rewarded her with this prize for her dedication to the integration of migrants and against discrimination of women.[citation needed] Other laureates have included Leah Rabin, the wife of former Israeli prime-minister Yitzhak Rabin, and Hans-Dietrich Genscher, former Foreign Minister of the Federal Republic of Germany.[citation needed]
- December 7, 2007: given the Goldwater Award for 2007 from the Goldwater Institute in Phoenix, Arizona, at a dinner attended by Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-Arizona), Rep. John Shadegg (R-Arizona), and Steve Forbes.[97]