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Hindu Gods: A problem
- Thread starter Antibush5
- Start date
kaisersose
Active Member
Hollow shells are still real.
Do you and your friends feel the same way about Gods in all religions or is this disbelief specific to Hindu Gods? If yes, you may want explain how.
You can set all the Gods aside, believe in just the one Supreme Brahman (formed or formless) and can still practice Hindu beliefs. Or perhaps, Hinduism is not the relgion for you and you should continue looking till you find a religion with believable Gods.
That is because you are not "connecting" in some way. I would suggest to start with Scriptural reading first.
Regards,
Reality is independent of our 'feelings' about it. Some people 'feel' that God exists and others 'feel' that God does not exist.
Why a person believes what they do it based on many factors, different for each individual. You don't have to believe in gods, it hardly matters. I personally don't spend too much time worrying about it. Taking the stories of gods literally or allegorically does not help in the ultimate goal of Self-Realisation.
So just don't worry about it
Reality is independent of our 'feelings' about it. Some people 'feel' that God exists and others 'feel' that God does not exist.
Why a person believes what they do it based on many factors, different for each individual. You don't have to believe in gods, it hardly matters. I personally don't spend too much time worrying about it. Taking the stories of gods literally or allegorically does not help in the ultimate goal of Self-Realisation.
So just don't worry about it
Hi Madhuri,
First congratulations on becoming the staff. I beg to differ from the above; my firm belief and opinion is that there is NO realization of either Atman or God without God's grace.
Regards,
Perhaps I misinterpreted the OP. My reply is specifically referring to the gods (devas), not God (Bhagavan). I probably misunderstood the OP question...:sad:
Antibush5
Active Member
Reality is independent of our 'feelings' about it. Some people 'feel' that God exists and others 'feel' that God does not exist.
Why a person believes what they do it based on many factors, different for each individual. You don't have to believe in gods, it hardly matters. I personally don't spend too much time worrying about it. Taking the stories of gods literally or allegorically does not help in the ultimate goal of Self-Realisation.
So just don't worry about it
Sadly, you did misunderstand its not that we don't believe in any gods, just that the gods of Hinduism don't seem real.
Then just refer to the first part of my answer
Btw, what are you attracted to exactly? You follow what does feel right to you as everyone follows what feels right to them. If Hinduism doesn't suit you then pursue the path that does. We're all individuals, with unique perceptions and inevitably different paths to truth. If the Gods of Hinduism are real, then it will one day be discovered by you. Until then, do what feels right.
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Antibush,
You are absolutely right!
They are hollow.
They are meant to be
It is the perceiver who perceives what an object is!
Kindly understand that the word *god* is a label for a concept and the label is used for an understanding of the concept that each particle in this universe is made of the same energy including *YOU*.
Gods are also created by human minds for an understanding of the various functions in this universe and to always remember that what is done what is seen what we are etc. etc. are nothing but *god* and to remember this at all times humans or meditators have developed various gods. How else can one remain conscious at all times?
Yes the mind has evolved and today many can remember without holding on to so many and for that too there are paths in sanatan dharma as worshiping gods is just one path of the thousands that sanatan dharma has shown.
Love & rgds
You are absolutely right!
They are hollow.
They are meant to be
It is the perceiver who perceives what an object is!
Kindly understand that the word *god* is a label for a concept and the label is used for an understanding of the concept that each particle in this universe is made of the same energy including *YOU*.
Gods are also created by human minds for an understanding of the various functions in this universe and to always remember that what is done what is seen what we are etc. etc. are nothing but *god* and to remember this at all times humans or meditators have developed various gods. How else can one remain conscious at all times?
Yes the mind has evolved and today many can remember without holding on to so many and for that too there are paths in sanatan dharma as worshiping gods is just one path of the thousands that sanatan dharma has shown.
Love & rgds
If something is not a part of your life then it will not seem real. Dinosaurs don't seem real to me because I've had no experience with them, but I accept that they did in fact exist. A good way to develop a relationship with God is through devotional service. God will begin to feel very much a part of your reality. The problem is that it is difficult to begin to do genuine devotional service if you do not believe to begin with.
Zeroa
Dances With Mice
Could it be that these particular gods just don't work from within your cultural frame of reference? Other gods have left their fingerprints all over Western culture-- long after Christianity came along, people were still painting Greek and Roman gods (as an example)-- but the Hindu gods and their stories aren't so much part of that.
I don't call myself a Hindu, but I am a devotee of Shiva, and an American, so my frame of reference isn't Indian-- I've just been fascinated since I was pretty young.
FWIW, I don't see them as "god in the heavens". That kind of seems to imply that the gods are something separate and set away from us, which seems to suggest in turn (to me at least) that we aren't a part of them. Intellectually, I believe that there's nothing that isn't God and nowhere that God isn't, and the face of God or Ultimate Reality for me is Shiva, and all there is for me to do is know that for myself.
If God is two men standing on a street corner, and the air vibrating between them as they speak, and the curb they are standing on and the bus that is approaching them, what is there even to believe in? It's all there is. And that's what I believe.
My main devotion is to Shiva in lingam form, having arrived at Shiva by being intrigued by the meanings in the imagery of Nataraja and then doing a lot of reading. Contemplating God as something that doesn't have a face and that has many meanings has begun to inch me closer to "Ultimate Reality", but I am still a long way away. Seeing images of Shiva and family (and hearing devotional music and so on) is helpful to me, giving me a place to approach my spiritual climb and a way to relate that is easy for my beginner's mind to grasp. They are vibrant and alive to me, from where I stand, and devotion seems like the most natural thing, even if my goal is to outgrow it. But that's my path at this time, and that might not be helpful to you at all.
There's so much more to Hinduism than worshiping gods or believing in them. I will have to agree with the previous stated point of view that it doesn't really even matter if you believe in the gods. There are plenty of other ways to tackle the problem.
Your mileage may vary, of course.
I don't call myself a Hindu, but I am a devotee of Shiva, and an American, so my frame of reference isn't Indian-- I've just been fascinated since I was pretty young.
FWIW, I don't see them as "god in the heavens". That kind of seems to imply that the gods are something separate and set away from us, which seems to suggest in turn (to me at least) that we aren't a part of them. Intellectually, I believe that there's nothing that isn't God and nowhere that God isn't, and the face of God or Ultimate Reality for me is Shiva, and all there is for me to do is know that for myself.
If God is two men standing on a street corner, and the air vibrating between them as they speak, and the curb they are standing on and the bus that is approaching them, what is there even to believe in? It's all there is. And that's what I believe.
My main devotion is to Shiva in lingam form, having arrived at Shiva by being intrigued by the meanings in the imagery of Nataraja and then doing a lot of reading. Contemplating God as something that doesn't have a face and that has many meanings has begun to inch me closer to "Ultimate Reality", but I am still a long way away. Seeing images of Shiva and family (and hearing devotional music and so on) is helpful to me, giving me a place to approach my spiritual climb and a way to relate that is easy for my beginner's mind to grasp. They are vibrant and alive to me, from where I stand, and devotion seems like the most natural thing, even if my goal is to outgrow it. But that's my path at this time, and that might not be helpful to you at all.
There's so much more to Hinduism than worshiping gods or believing in them. I will have to agree with the previous stated point of view that it doesn't really even matter if you believe in the gods. There are plenty of other ways to tackle the problem.
Your mileage may vary, of course.
Andal
resident hypnotist
Others have given some good advice so I'll just add a couple of things. The first is that you don't have to take a path of devotion to deities to still be Hindu. You can practice Sankya philosophy and yoga for example.
If however, you are interested in a devotion based path, have you chosen the deity who will be the subject of your devotion? If you have or even if you haven't yet, remember that not growing up with these deities means you have to develop the relationship over time and they might not feel real first. Sanatana Dharma isn't about blind belief, it is about experience. It's ok to start in a place of disbelief as long as you trust that the path you're taking is the right one and you're open to a change in your views. Developing bhakti for God is a two way street and for every step you take toward him he will take a million. So try it out for a while honestly. If you still don't feel right about it then perhaps this path isn't for you.
Hope this helps
Aum Hari Aum!
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Well if you don't believe in any Gods of course they don't seem real.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
This is my perspective on the Gods. They are in the heavens they are in our hearts. They are all One. I don't take the teaching as literal. I do not believe that the King of the God Indra literally riding around on elephant and is killing demons in some heaven, as I am typing on my computer. Each story has a meaning it is a teaching. Philosophy has it limits. Mythology can teach complex Ideas in a more simple way so all can understand it.
Lets look at a very small story. I hope I remember it correctly.
Once the Lord Rama was at a river in the woods He stuck his bow into the sand at the shore and took a drink. When he was done, he pulled his bow out of the sand he found blood on the tip. He dug down in to the sand and found a bleeding frog. He asked the frog "why did you not croak." I would have helped you. The frog said whenever I have a problem I crock to you Lord Rama. "When the snake is trying to eat me I cry to you Help Help Rama. When I am hungry I cry feed me Lord Rama. This time I found it was you who was hurting me so I just stayed silent." Then the frog died and became One with the Lord Rama.
Do I believe that frogs talk? NO. But every time I walk through a meadow and hear the frogs croak I think of this story. And how all of nature is One with God. And If we surrender our ego's to it we will realize our unity. The singing frogs always add just a little more pleasure to the walk.
ByeRaagi Rayaprolu
the Untouchable Hindu
nice topic by Antibush..:clapi agree with him in saying that the reality or otherwise of these demi-gods matters a lot, not may be for the "Elite"/'Learned' hindus,to a lot of hindu laymen (who are in confusion and distraction, apart from temptations, created by the miss+onaries:sorry1 and also to the wannabeHindus..
Born into a veda-learning family, i still grew disbelief in the infallibility & authenticity of Vedas only coz of this multitude of human like demi-gods, allegedly immortal & also apparently immoral,who live in a heaven, eat sacrificial offerings and, in return, control nature-forces, yet can be expelled from their own place by Asuras and have to run away for..what, life ??,aren't they immortal there's no end to all such silly questions which are but very important for a layman to understand our crazy religion.
ok..nothing but a nameless & formless Brahman may satisfy many a Hindu intelligentia whose religious instincts got seriously influenced by the monotheistic & atheistic modernity of kaliyuga...but if u can believe me, comrades, these kinky beings called Devas are really reallly are there.....where..:run:
and also to the wannabeHindus..Born into a veda-learning family, i still grew disbelief in the infallibility & authenticity of Vedas only coz of this multitude of human like demi-gods, allegedly immortal & also apparently immoral,who live in a heaven, eat sacrificial offerings and, in return, control nature-forces, yet can be expelled from their own place by Asuras and have to run away for..what, life ??,aren't they immortal
there's no end to all such silly questions which are but very important for a layman to understand our crazy religion.ok..nothing but a nameless & formless Brahman may satisfy many a Hindu intelligentia whose religious instincts got seriously influenced by the monotheistic & atheistic modernity of kaliyuga...but if u can believe me, comrades, these kinky beings called Devas are really reallly are there.....where..:run:
Namasté ByeRaagi Rayaprolu
You offer an alternative and creative angle I think you touch on something when you say that only a nameless and formless Brahman may satisfy a person in this age, which is influenced by monotheistic religions and atheism. It is much harder in this age to accept polytheism not alone demi gods. The question is why is it so hard?
My answer is that the reason it is hard is due to the very same obstacle that raises the question about the gods not feeling real and even the conclusion that there is no god(s) at all. One may even say that the Gods are not "cool or tough enough". All of these conceptions are conceptions due to the influence of Maya.
Once the investigation has begun one is on the path to seeing beyond this maya and this path will answer the question as to why atheism, and denial of demi-gods and polytheism prevails so strongly in this kaliyuga.
As to monotheism and it's influence, that I feel can also be understood via investigation (of Maya) but will also be understood from the Upanishads themselves.
You offer an alternative and creative angle
I think you touch on something when you say that only a nameless and formless Brahman may satisfy a person in this age, which is influenced by monotheistic religions and atheism. It is much harder in this age to accept polytheism not alone demi gods. The question is why is it so hard?My answer is that the reason it is hard is due to the very same obstacle that raises the question about the gods not feeling real and even the conclusion that there is no god(s) at all. One may even say that the Gods are not "cool or tough enough". All of these conceptions are conceptions due to the influence of Maya.
Once the investigation has begun one is on the path to seeing beyond this maya and this path will answer the question as to why atheism, and denial of demi-gods and polytheism prevails so strongly in this kaliyuga.
As to monotheism and it's influence, that I feel can also be understood via investigation (of Maya) but will also be understood from the Upanishads themselves.
Born into a veda-learning family, i still grew disbelief in the infallibility & authenticity of Vedas only coz of this multitude of human like demi-gods, allegedly immortal & also apparently immoral,who live in a heaven, eat sacrificial offerings and, in return, control nature-forces, yet can be expelled from their own place by Asuras and have to run away for..what, life ??,aren't they immortal
Something that might interest you is that the Devas are not immortal. They are just souls like you and me who have obtained the bodies and roles of gods, temporarily. That's why they aren't perfect spiritual beings. I hope that helps
Hi MadhuriSomething that might interest you is that the Devas are not immortal. They are just souls like you and me who have obtained the bodies and roles of gods, temporarily. That's why they aren't perfect spiritual beings. I hope that helps
That interests me. To my limited understanding the Avatars have a limited life, they are born and so they must die. Not only that but they must be taught and learn the Truth.