Hindu Gods: A problem

[Madhuri]

Hi Madhuri
That interests me. To my limited understanding the Avatars have a limited life, they are born and so they must die. Not only that but they must be taught and learn the Truth.

I'm not referring to Avatars though. Just the demi-gods, which Byeraagi mentioned (like Indra, for example).
The Avatars are God, not souls. Sorry if I caused confusion!

 

[Onkara]

I'm not referring to Avatars though. Just the demi-gods, which Byeraagi mentioned (like Indra, for example).
The Avatars are God, not souls. Sorry if I caused confusion!

Hi Marvelous Madhuri
No, it was me going off on a personal tangent about avatars, sorry for the randomness

 

[Madhuri]

Hi Marvelous Madhuri
No, it was me going off on a personal tangent about avatars, sorry for the randomness

Oh, ok! In that case, you are right, the avatars seems to take birth and go through death. This is generally explained as something that God chooses to do in order to exist in the world without everyone recognising his Divinity. But it's something that I don't much understand in depth.

 

[Onkara]

Oh, ok! In that case, you are right, the avatars seems to take birth and go through death. This is generally explained as something that God chooses to do in order to exist in the world without everyone recognising his Divinity. But it's something that I don't much understand in depth.

My stab at the philosophical reasoning is that bodily life is prakriti (universal nature). So through the Lord's own power (maya - prakriti) He takes form, in the same way that he created all of nature (humans included). However as He maintains ultimate control He is able to transcend or with stand the birth and death cycle which normally causes fear and misery to many of the Jivas (souls-atman).

We take ourselves to be the body, so we feel fear at loosing it and the pain feels real (hunger, accidents, wounds etc). Earthly desire keeps us bound. For Him this is nothing more than a part of His prakriti and yoga-maya and so He is already spiritually beyond His prakriti. Thus He allows birth and death of His avatar to occur naturally, as it would for us humans. So the Avatar is flesh and blood, but the spirit is pure and beyond the gunas, so can bestow wisdom and enlightenment on the jivas who's nature is open to such wisdom (through shabdha or naad, one might say).

Aum!

PS: Sorry, I feel I am indulging my tangent again

 

[Madhuri]

My stab at the philosophical reasoning is that bodily life is prakriti (universal nature). So through the Lord's own power (maya - prakriti) He takes form, in the same way that he created all of nature (humans included). However as He maintains ultimate control He is able to transcend or with stand the birth and death cycle which normally causes fear and misery to many of the Jivas (souls-atman).

We take ourselves to be the body, so we feel fear at loosing it and the pain feels real (hunger, accidents, wounds etc). Earthly desire keeps us bound. For Him this is nothing more than a part of His prakriti and yoga-maya and so He is already spiritually beyond His prakriti. Thus He allows birth and death of His avatar to occur naturally, as it would for us humans. So the Avatar is flesh and blood, but the spirit is pure and beyond the gunas, so can bestow wisdom and enlightenment on the jivas who's nature is open to such wisdom (through shabdha or naad, one might say).

Aum!

PS: Sorry, I feel I am indulging my tangent again

I'm glad you wrote that. I think it makes sense and I like it

 

[Onkara]

I'm glad you wrote that. I think it makes sense and I like it

I am glad... it makes all my previous lives worth while lol

What we need today is a good topic we can all get our teeth in, ever have that feeling?

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Personal understanding is that enlightened humans, evolved to the status of *gods*; as it is a never ending journey and would not be surprised when there will be more gods than humans and lording over various planetary systems and planets.

Friend Onkarah, you may NOW get your teeth IN!

Love & rgds

p.s. Friend Satsangi appears missing??, anyone?

 

[Onkara]

Zenzero, that is a juicy looking topic, I will dig my fangs in if I may....

Could it be that we all then have the potential of evolving into the status of *gods* or divine. As the material side already exists i.e. our body, so the magical seed may already be lying dormant within us. Once we add the water of enlightenment perhaps we will burst forth into enlightened humanoids with god like status (I can feel LHP vibes).

What is a god like status, well being pure satva and beyond the mundane desire and fears?

This also explains why one should treat religious people with respect. One might say they are close enough to God to be godly, and so disrespect of them is on the way to being disrespectful of the "divine source" itself.

p.s. Friend Satsangi appears missing??, anyone?

Perharps our friend Satsangi is on a spiritual break on a beach somewhere

 

[zenzero]

Friend Onkarah,

Its very simple:
out of Brahman we have the gods of creation, preservation & destruction and slowly down the ladder to various forms unto rocks and the other way the forms keep evolving back to gods and beyond.
When we evolve back to the level where the bodies are shed/dropped then its the realm of the gods.
Imagination? all mythologies are imagination coupled with understanding / realization.
Besides the next stage of human evolution is surely god like super humans.

Anyone else biting in?

Love & rgds

 

[ByeRaagi Rayaprolu]

Something that might interest you is that the Devas are not immortal. They are just souls like you and me who have obtained the bodies and roles of gods, temporarily. That's why they aren't perfect spiritual beings. I hope that helps

gr8 insight , :clap hats-off..
and also InshaAllah it's going in the right direction, thanx to Omkarah and others..discussing the logic of Avataras is not at all a tangent...it's part and parcel of AntiBush's problem..and i think u comrades are "aptly" led to discover the possibility of us catching a light and reaching a star/becoming a star..:yes:

Lemme share my limlited understanding of RigVeda and older puranas about these star-gods..
Each deva/god/God designated by rig veda has three varieties of simultaneous manifestations at Aadhyaatmika(microcosmic), AadhiBhautika(Terrestrial or phenomenal-worldly) and AadhiDaivika(Macrocosmic) levels..this has been the traditional thumbrule in interpreting any vedic, especially rigvedic, texts...eg: the word 'Indra' at a time means the ahamkaara and the sense-mind rooted in our Moolaadhaara chakra, also the thunder weilding rain god on earth and Indra IS also the star Antares("Jyeshta", aptly named coz it's the biggest star on the ecliptic/zodiac). "it's when the Scorpio rises in the east, after the sunset, that the northern hemisphere receives thunder storms and first rains and Indra is the rain god and also chief of gods so, they must've named the biggest star in scorpio as Indra"....bla bla..!!reasoning is all up to u, bros and sis..

these are some identities between stars & gods.

1. Milky way = Celestial Ganga & Yamuna (the bifurcated thinner n foggy portion)
= Ksheera saagara, "the Milky ocean"(the thicker n denser portions)
= The Chakra(Disc-weapon) pivoted on Hari ki Divine-"unglee":sarcastic

2. star Vega(Alpha-Lyra) = lord VishNu and His Parama-Padam (Highest Abode) which lies in the foreground of the centre of our galaxy, when seen from earth. Apparently, our sun and many other suns 4m our galaxy, are approaching this star with an average speed of 12 miles persec/ten lakh miles per day...coz of the gravitational pull from the black hole at the centre..it appears as if everything is being pulled in to Lord VishNu and His Paramapadam first and then in to the Black hole next. that's the end of the game at level-milkyway.

3. The Black Hole at the centre of milky way, our galaxy = Kaali/Krishna/VaishNavi/MahaaMaayaa/iishvaraAvidyaa
( all these names explain Dark, attracting singularity or death of space n time)

4. constellation "Aquila" = Garuda/ the Eagle-vehicle of Lord VishNu
5. constellations Bootes&Serpens joined = The snake-bed of Vishnu
Cluster M-13 = "The grand Beehive close to Vishnu's Highest Abode"-(R.V.I-154-5)
Corona Borealis = The crown of VishNu
Delphinus = celestial cow-pen ( "GoLoka", where radha and krishna live forever)

6. the Double-Double star system in Epsylon-Lyra = four faced Brahmaa
the Ring Nebula in Lyra, just below the Brahmaa-stars = the Lotus from which brahma-loka sprouted..
Lyra constellation,as a whole, is called VeeNaa mandala,symbolising Sarasvati, and it's from this corner of skies that we received Vedas

7. constellation CYGNUS (Swan) just beneath sarasvati and Brahma, thier vehicle swan..as if ready to take off.

8. Sirius (2 star system) = Shiva&Shakti
The Dog-Constellation/Canis Major = Bhairava / NeelaKanTha
Taurus = the Bull of Shiva
Gemini = the zodiacal home of Shiva+Shakti, the primal "Mithuna"(Pair)

9. iota and Kappa of Ursa Major, 39 Lynx,Theta,Phi,173 Nyu and 16 ursa Major form the right side view of the body of Ganesha and beneath there's the celestial rat too..these stars are just to the west of the westernmost pair of stars known as alpha and Beta of the Great Bear.

10. the popular 7 stars in the great bear are Saptarshi+Arundhati(blinking just beside Vasishta)..remaining 6 wives+Arundhati, again, are Pleiades in Taurus..these stars also stand for Agni and thus both Krittikas(Pleiades) and the celestial Bull are invoked whenever Agni is invoked in a ritual.

11.Ashivin-Twins (the doctors, horse riders n sea-farers)are the stars in asterism Ashvini (Alpha and Beta Aries) whose car is said to be drawn by a bull (Taurus) and an aquatic giant ("Cetus"/Whale/"Shinshumaara")..Aries has these two celestial animals ahead, on either sides of the ecliptic.
also the stars Castor n Pollux (both in Gemini)are ashvins riding horses
and also in the constellation of "Asseli", they ride donkeys
12. Indra = Antares ("jyeshta")
13. VaruNa = Lambda Aquarius ("Shatabhisha")
14. Yama = No.28, 29, 41Taurus ("BharaNi")
14. Vaayu/Maruts/Hanuman/Bheem = Arcturus/Alpha Bootes ("Swaathi")
15. Tvashta = Spica/ Alpha Virgo( "Chitra")
16. Savita = Delta, Gama, Eta Virgo (" Hasta")
17. Bhaga = Beta and 93 Leo ("Uttara")
18. Pooshan = Zeta Piscum ( "Revati")
19. Ahirbudhnya = Gama Pegasus and Alpha Andromeda("Uttaraabhaadra")
20. Ajaikapaada = Alpha and Beta Pegasus ("Poorvaabhaadra")
21. Aryama = Delta and Theta Leo ("Poorva Phalguni")
22. The eight Vasus (& Bhishma) = Delphinus ("Dhanishta")
23...
24...
25...

it seems there are still sooo many stars vacant and onoccupied, waiting for us...so we shud better try our luck (or Merit ??)

plzz help me, comrades, with ur approval/rejection/investigation of the above identities, and also plz suggest any better software than "skyglobe" that i'm using since ages..

 

[ByeRaagi Rayaprolu]

can any one plzzz help us with an exact verse from the so called "Kaala Suukta"(RgVeda), 'The Good-word on Time', which means "the seers are travelling in Time, riding the chariots of Light"..(i remember reading this long back..n sorry that i forgot the quote)