Hate Crimes - OK To Commit Say Some?

[Storm]

#14 & #34 fully state my views.
We be good!

Both of those address property crime. I've already said that was only an example for the hate speech question, and it's TOTALLY irrelevant to post 9.

But in the interest of furthering discussion, I'll go ahead and respond to this:

I don't favor punishing hate speech, only real crimes.

Well, legally speaking, hate speech is a 'real crime,' but given that I chided you for semantic games, I'll let it go.

Anyway, are death threats "real crimes?" Honest question.

There is great potential for repression when gov't acquires the power to punish thought crime.
To do so in conjunction with real crime is just the first step IMO.
Next, the mere expression of offensive speech would be restricted....IM(paranoid)O

Hey, I'm CLINICALLY paranoid raised by an iconoclast who taught me never to trust anyone in authority! (He kinda regretted that when I applied it to him, but that's another story.... ) That said, I don't consider hate crimes to be thought crime. Fred Phelps, may ants take his eyes, has yet to commit a hate crime, rabid as he is. The Ku Klux Klan has every right to recruit all the maggots they can, and so on.

But when people start calling for violence, I consider that criminally liable.

 

[Storm]

Oh, and before I forget again, I'd like to publicly apologize for being too hard on you.

Everyone has cranky days.

 

[Revoltingest]

Both of those address property crime. I've already said that was only an example for the hate speech question, and it's TOTALLY irrelevant to post 9.

Broadly speaking, I oppose prosecution for hate speech.
I see it as the beginnings of thought crime prosecution.

Well, legally speaking, hate speech is a 'real crime,' but given that I chided you for semantic games, I'll let it go.

This is no mere semantic game for me. I believe what I say & say what I believe.
Opinions may differ, but I don't consider hate speech to be a real crime.
Moreover, I consider criminalizing it to be an unconstitutional government fabrication for the purpose of exercising greater power over us.

Anyway, are death threats "real crimes?"

Yes. They're generally more of the yelling-fire-in-a-crowded-theater type of speech.
Hate speech is more of a really nasty insult. I don't want gov't to regulate insults.
(What a threat to internet forums that would be, eh?)

Hey, I'm CLINICALLY paranoid....

I'm just a self-diagnosed paranoid.

....raised by an iconoclast who taught me never to trust anyone in authority! (He kinda regretted that when I applied it to him, but that's another story.... ) That said, I don't consider hate crimes to be thought crime. Fred Phelps, may ants take his eyes, has yet to commit a hate crime, rabid as he is. The Ku Klux Klan has every right to recruit all the maggots they can, and so on.
But when people start calling for violence, I consider that criminally liable.

I too would put some calls for violence in the "real crime" class.

 

[Storm]

OK, I don't see much else to be said.

 

[Revoltingest]

OK, I don't see much else to be said.

That happens.
Tis fine to have different views.

 

[Father Heathen]

"Hate speech", such as merely stating "Revoltifarians should ride at the back of the bus" for example, shouldn't be illegal.

However, if its in the form of harassment, intimidation and threats, then it should be a legal issue.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Hate speech", such as merely stating "Revoltifarians should ride at the back of the bus" for example, shouldn't be illegal.

PSAs should encourage it.

However, if its in the form of harassment, intimidation and threats, then it should be a legal issue.

I agree.

Perhaps I should've pointed out something earlier.....
I too experience a desire to stop people from expressing hateful & counterproductive speech.
I just oppose that as government's role.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Assault is still a crime, but the perps are exempt from additional punishment for "hate".
I'll tell yah, if someone beats me to a bloody pulp, I don't care whether it's out of
dispassionate sociopathy or hate....I think the crime is the same.

It is common to add on penalties to crimes for different reasons. Like lying in wait for murder.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is common to add on penalties to crimes for different reasons. Like lying in wait for murder.

Yes, it is.
I see a distinction though, since lying in wait signifies intent regarding outcome of the planned act.
Hate, however, is a motivation for the intent.

 

[blackout]

If a person is being bullied to distraction and mental duress/breakdown,
and/or is the victim of others bearing false witness about them,
spreading personal information, untruths, destructive rumors,
ruining their personal reputation
jeopardizing their professional/student/social/family life
the bullies should be charged
in light of the (potential) destructive capacity of their words/actions
against the victim.

I suppose harassment would be the charge?
Still, it is more than that.

 

[Neo-Logic]

As far as I understand it, hate-crime enhancements to sentencing laws and charges are based on whether or not the harm committed to the victim was based proportionally more on their perceived membership of a historically and lawfully protected classes (racial, gender, national origin, sexual orientation, etc) than any other factors present.

If this is proven, it wouldn't matter if the accused is themselves a member of the protected classification.

 

[Revoltingest]

As far as I understand it, hate-crime enhancements to sentencing laws and charges are based on whether or not the harm committed to the victim was based proportionally more on their perceived membership of a historically and lawfully protected classes (racial, gender, national origin, sexual orientation, etc) than any other factors present.
If this is proven, it wouldn't matter if the accused is themselves a member of the protected classification.

If hate crime laws are to be, than that would be the way to enforce them.

 

[Mathematician]

In my mind hate crimes should basically just be considered a degree of terrorism - a crime meant to intimidate a particular segment of society, regardless if that segment is considered in power or not.

Thus a lesbian attacking gay men where there's evidence these women wanted to leave other gay men a message would be a hate crime, or a black guy doing the same to a white woman, or a white guy attacking a black man to scare others, etc.