Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Psaki says Republicans 'need more to do' instead of attacking VP on border absence
Not Today!! Baww!! Hahahaha!!!
Not Today!! Baww!! Hahahaha!!!
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What should the Republican do?
When Biden asked them for input on the Covid relief package he didn't listen and pushed it through.
All Biden is doing is following the directons of his handlers and they are not of the centrist philosophy.
It seems that nobody on the left is listening to the right at all, including Harris on this matter. Nobody wants conservative counsel. Harris doesn't care what the Republicans want of her, and hopefully, she'll continue to flout their advice with not so much as an acknowledgement that anybody on the right spoke.
Nobody on the left seems to care what Republicans want of Harris or any other Democrat. Nobody on the left cares what they recommend about vaccines or masks, or what people like Jordan and Paul have to say to Fauci, especially Fauci. Nobody on the left cares what Cruz and Abbott think about the border. Nobody on the left cares what Graham predicts will happen in Afghanistan after withdrawal. Nobody on the left cares what the Republicans consider COVID relief or infrastructure. Nobody on the left wants to hear what Marjorie Taylor Greene wants to say to AOC in a debate about the New Green Deal. Nobody on the left is buying that Jim Crow legislation is about election integrity. Nobody on the left cares how much Cornyn wants Biden to Tweet or go on cable TV. Nobody on the left cares what Republicans predict that raising corporate taxes will do.
And on it goes. All being ignored. All have excluded themselves from the conversation with their intransigence, antidemocratic actions, malice, indifference to ordinary people, and complete lack of constructive ideas or civility.
How can we call the Republicans and their enablers Americans in the ideological sense? What principle of Americanism does the right embrace? These are what I consider foundational principles in Americanism, the attack on any of them constituting un-Americanism: democracy, transparent government dedicated to promoting the words in the Preamble (general welfare, etc.), the rule of law, egalitarianism, church-state separation (secular government), guaranteed personal liberties such as freedom of expression and the right to a fair trial, justice, and the like.
Republicans spit in the face of all of that, subverting democratic elections, opaque government, disinterest in the welfare of the typical citizen, uninterested in obeying the law or applying it fairly, promoting inequality and white privilege, happy to inject religion into government, and no interest in fair trials or the rights of anybody but themselves. Sorry, but that's not American. It's the antithesis of American.
And so many people are so slow in seeing that.
I never believed in that facade from Biden. Once 'President' Harris was selected, I knew it was game over.McConnell says Biden hasn't spoken to him since he took office
Maybe Biden doesn't regard McConnell as an American. Biden said he was a going to be a President for all Americans, but it sounds like you are saying that Republicans are not American.
McConnell says Biden hasn't spoken to him since he took office
Good for Biden. McConnell has nothing to offer of interest to him, and Biden shouldn't give him oxygen. Wasn't he the guy that asked Schumer how the two of them would share power in the senate. How about 100-0%, just like the last many years, but in reverse.
Maybe Biden doesn't regard McConnell as an American. I don't. Biden said he was a going to be a President for all Americans, but it sounds like you are saying that Republicans are not American.
Instead of going to the border for a photo op, our V. P. Is going to the source of our hemisphere's migration challenge. V.P. Harris will visit Guatemala where she will set up conditional cash transfers (edited) * to Guatemalans as an incentive for them to safely remain in their native homeland.*I love this part....
"House Republicans at their press conference Wednesday brought out a milk carton adorned with the vice president’s face, and "Missing at the border" written below".
Priceless beyond measure.
But....Instead of going to the border for a photo op, our V. P. Is going to the source of our hemisphere's migration challenge. V.P. Harris will visit Guatemala where she will set up conditional cash transfers (edited) * to Guatemalans as an incentive for them to safely remain in their native homeland.*
What Republicans can do now is support U.S.foreign aid going to young unemployed Guatemalans who would then might be able to remain in their native homeland rather than having to migrate in order to have a chance of survival.Only thing Republicans can do right now is at the mid terms.
What I said is that the Republican party is un-American ideologically, but of course, those that have American passports (all of them), are American in a technical sense.
Do you disagree? If so, why? At what point is one so far rightwing that he fell of the tip of the American bird. How could the Republicans be any less interested in Americanism as I defined it? In what way are they opposed to America's enemies like Putin?
I make this argument a bit here and elsewhere, but get almost no feedback, certainly no rebuttal. It's very disappointing, as if it wouldn't matter either way to most posters, or they don't understand what is claimed.
Would you or anybody else on RF be interested in rebutting the argument? Tell me where you think I'm wrong, or if you find no fault with the argument and its conclusion, that you agree.
It seems that nobody on the left is listening to the right at all, including Harris on this matter. Nobody wants conservative counsel. Harris doesn't care what the Republicans want of her, and hopefully, she'll continue to flout their advice with not so much as an acknowledgement that anybody on the right spoke.
Nobody on the left seems to care what Republicans want of Harris or any other Democrat. Nobody on the left cares what they recommend about vaccines or masks, or what people like Jordan and Paul have to say to Fauci, especially Fauci. Nobody on the left cares what Cruz and Abbott think about the border. Nobody on the left cares what Graham predicts will happen in Afghanistan after withdrawal. Nobody on the left cares what the Republicans consider COVID relief or infrastructure. Nobody on the left wants to hear what Marjorie Taylor Greene wants to say to AOC in a debate about the New Green Deal. Nobody on the left is buying that Jim Crow legislation is about election integrity. Nobody on the left cares how much Cornyn wants Biden to Tweet or go on cable TV. Nobody on the left cares what Republicans predict that raising corporate taxes will do.
And on it goes. All being ignored. All have excluded themselves from the conversation with their intransigence, antidemocratic actions, malice, indifference to ordinary people, and complete lack of constructive ideas or civility.
How can we call the Republicans and their enablers Americans in the ideological sense? What principle of Americanism does the right embrace? These are what I consider foundational principles in Americanism, the attack on any of them constituting un-Americanism: democracy, transparent government dedicated to promoting the words in the Preamble (general welfare, etc.), the rule of law, egalitarianism, church-state separation (secular government), guaranteed personal liberties such as freedom of expression and the right to a fair trial, justice, and the like.
Republicans spit in the face of all of that, subverting democratic elections, opaque government, disinterest in the welfare of the typical citizen, uninterested in obeying the law or applying it fairly, promoting inequality and white privilege, happy to inject religion into government, and no interest in fair trials or the rights of anybody but themselves. Sorry, but that's not American. It's the antithesis of American.
And so many people are so slow in seeing that.
Best thing for Republicans to do is pull their heads out their backsides.What Republicans can do now is support U.S.foreign aid going to young unemployed Guatemalans who would then might be able to remain in their native homeland rather than having to migrate in order to have a chance of survival.
Freedom of Speech and expressing opinions is an American value. Censorship (of right-leaning views, for example) is un-American.
despite irregularities, the result of the election has been accepted by Republicans
It seems that when Republicans suspect elections have been conducted unfairly, they get very angry about it.
Democracy is certainly a value of Republicans and the right.
Can you explain your assertions?
These were my words:
"Nobody on the left seems to care what Republicans want of Harris or any other Democrat. Nobody on the left cares what they recommend about vaccines or masks, or what people like Jordan and Paul have to say to Fauci, especially Fauci. Nobody on the left cares what Cruz and Abbott think about the border. Nobody on the left cares what Graham predicts will happen in Afghanistan after withdrawal. Nobody on the left cares what the Republicans consider COVID relief or infrastructure. Nobody on the left wants to hear what Marjorie Taylor Greene wants to say to AOC in a debate about the New Green Deal. Nobody on the left is buying that Jim Crow legislation is about election integrity. Nobody on the left cares how much Cornyn wants Biden to Tweet or go on cable TV. Nobody on the left cares what Republicans predict that raising corporate taxes will do. And on it goes. All being ignored. All have excluded themselves from the conversation with their intransigence, antidemocratic actions, malice, indifference to ordinary people, and complete lack of constructive ideas or civility."
That is not advocating for censorship.
Furthermore, individual citizens and private institutions don't owe anybody a platform, and are free to silence unwanted speech by any legal means, which is just about anything short of murder or abduction. Nobody has freedom of speech with me against my will. I'll only hear them if I'm interested.
Except for the 139 of 212 House Republican that refused to certify the Electoral College vote, and the legislatures and governors of the states such as Georgia that are clamoring for election security absent evidence of substantial election fraud immediately after an election that was famously declared stolen. Were you aware of that, and if so, how do you reconcile that with your claim?
Exit Polls...As I've been alluding, you and I don't have much of our belief sets in common. I have a completely different read on what is motivating the Republicans, and it wasn't election fraud. It is that too many working people are voting against them, and they need to impede voting in people that work 9-5 M-F. I realize that you don't agree, but we've hit an impasse here.
Is that what the insurrection and attempted coup was about? Democracy as a value?
Is that what voter suppression is about, promoting democracy?
Once again, it appears we don't have enough common ground to have a productive discussion of these things. There needs to be shared values and beliefs (shared premises) as a starting point. How far back do we need to go to find common ground? That we both want what we want? That we both have opinions, albeit contradictory ones? That murder is bad? That's not enough. That's too far back to get to either of our positions on anything.
Not to somebody who is so far from my view.
Recently, I commented that I thought that Trump was likely guilty of many crimes, and he asked me why I thought that. Really? In 2021 he didn't know the answer to that? It means that he simply isn't processing evidence as I do if he's missing it all (psychologists call it a confirmation bias - seeing only what you want to see and nothing contradictory to it). When dealing with a confirmation bias, there is no point proceeding. The person is telling you that they do not think critically, that is, the do not use reason properly applied to relevant evidence to decide what is true about the world, and since I have nothin else to offer, what's the point?
Or the believer who want to know where the Bible contradicts itself, or how it is in conflict with science. Again, what's the point of answering. There is no chance that such a person will be influenced by demonstrations of contradictions in scripture or errors in the creation story, so the only reason to answer is the possibility that others who do use evidence and argument to determine what is likely the case might benefit.
The thing with dialectic, or the cooperative effort of two critical thinkers to determine where they disagree, why, and if it is over a matter of fact rather than an opinion like a value, they can go back to their shared premises and work forward until they find where they parted ways, and since each is able to understand and be convinced by a compelling answer, they can resolve their difference, one being educated in the process.
And if the difference is at the level of values, say whether abortion should be legal or not, they can still come to agreement at the level of, "If I believed what you do about the moral status of abortion, I would be forced to come to the same conclusion you did, and vice versa."
But that doesn't happen unless both participants agree that this is the way to settle differences. If critical thinking and cooperation aren't skills brought to the process, there is no dialectic, no agreement, and no changing minds.
Do you really think that democracy is a Republican value despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary? Do you just not see it? I gave you a long list of what I consider core beliefs of Americanism, and the ways I though the Republicans spat in the face of them all, including democracy, the only one you addressed.
Your Claim???: the left should ignore the people because: "intransigence, antidemocratic actions, malice, indifference to ordinary people, and complete lack of constructive ideas or civility".
Intransigence means "refusal to change one's views or to agree about something": Not a good reason.
Antidemocratic actions: Such as?
Malice: Who is intending malice and what is being intended?
Indifference to ordinary people: Such as... ignoring people - the very thing you advocate people on the left do?
Complete Lack of Constructive Ideas: There are a lot of ideas... but ignoring and not caring about people is not the way to hear those ideas.
Complete Lack of Civility: Who is it that completely lacks civility?
It's important to hear if Harris gets called out for not doing anything constructive.
YouTube censored a discussion with experts on masks. Do you agree with YouTube's (?legal?) decision to remove this content?
What do you mean "people like"? Fauci was called before the House of Representatives and listened to what Jordan had to say (the right thing to do). Why do you think it's better if Fauci ignores Jordan?
Cruz is a Texas senator. Abbott is the Governor of Texas. Texas is on the border. Why ignore them?
Graham is a senator; Troops in Afghanistan is an important issue. Covid Relief and Infrastructure are important. Marjorie Taylor Greene and AOC are representatives; the Green New Deal is a big deal. Election Integrity is important. Why ignore these?
Cornyn is a senator. I agree it's not important that Biden tweet a lot. It is significant that Biden lacks transparency, which he campaigned about.
I reconcile that with the fact that Biden is President of the United States. I trust that you are aware that just because the vote was not unanimous doesn't mean that result has not since been accepted.
Why do Democrats not care about election integrity? Evidence of substantial election fraud isn't necessary before improving election integrity.
Exit Polls...
National Exit Polls: How Different Groups Voted
Do you work full-time for pay?
Yes: 58% of voters 51% Trump 47% Biden
No: 42% of voters 42% Trump 57% Biden
Republicans have an incentive to help working people vote; Democrats have an incentive to impede working people from voting. What reason do you have that Republicans don't want working people to vote? I understand if you are relying on a hunch (in which case, we are indeed at an impasse).
If you had the opportunity to interrogate those present at the capitol, what would they say?
A. We value DemocracyI think they would say that they value Democracy. Do you disagree?
B. We do not value Democracy.
We can dig a little deeper if you like. What do you think Republicans say about the capitol riots?
A. The invasion of the capital was a good thing.I think they have already said it was a bad thing. They don't support it. Do you disagree?
B. The invasion of the capitol was a bad thing.
So that leaves Trump. Do you believe Trump wanted the people to invade the capitol building? I don't. Do you disagree?
Voter suppression such as...?
Are you giving up on trying to find common ground?
I might call your refusal to change your view or agree about something "intransigence". Do you think that would be a good reason for others to ignore you?
If you have "nothin else to offer", why invite other people to rebut your arguments?
I agree that debate most often does not change minds. I still like to debate sometimes.
I agree that finding common ground is important. I disagree that they will always be able to resolve their difference of opinion.
Something like that, but I don't believe the conclusions are "forced", merely compelling.
Practically speaking, it takes real world experience to change minds - not just some talk on an internet forum.
Yes, I think most people in the U.S. value democracy, both Republicans and Democrats. The "mountain of evidence" is something you seem loathe to impart. No, I don't "just see it".
You claim this long list of ways in which you thought the Republicans spat in the face of Americanism, but when I press you on them, you write about how you can't be bothered to explain. What can I conclude? I certainly haven't shirked from going line by line through your remarks.
There are plenty of irregularities with the recent elections. It is not "antidemocratic" to address voting irregularities (anymore than it was for Democrats to seek remedy for voting irregularities in past elections). Has your confidence in democracy been undermined? Ignoring people is not a path that sustains confidence.antidemocratic efforts from the left include undermining confidence in democracy by calling fair elections fixed without good evidence
I agree that attempting to overturn a fair democratic election with a coup attempt is antidemocratic (?common ground?). The right has been supportive of finding people involved in sedition from Jan 6. I don't see why you choose to ignore that.attempting to overturn a fair election with a failed coup attempt
Let me know when have some evidence to support your conspiracy theory, preferably some evidence that has not been rejected after a thorough review and a failed impeachment trial.conspiring with the Russians to influence American elections
Are you able to articulate how the legislation suppresses votes? I suspect that you cannot. You already made a claim about Republican motivations that I was able to easily counter with a simple google search for exit poll data.and voter suppression legislation such as we saw from Georgia
Would you agree that claiming gerrymandering when there wasn't would be an example of undermining confidence in democracy by calling elections fixed without good evidence?Gerrymandering is an old example
Interesting anecdote. Voter lists have to be maintained by federal law and that means purges have to happen - something you admit you were unaware of. And you are suggesting that because you happen to live in a predominantly Republican area, registered Democrat, and have been purged twice that means you were deliberately targeted because of your party affiliation. That can't be your whole story - or rather if that is your entire story, then it is insufficient and would reflect poorly on you.I was purged from the voting rolls twice (registered Democratic in a very red part of a red state surrounded by eight other red states, wasn't even aware that such things happened then).
Yes, you really do have to tell all that, as much as I would love to read your mind and tell what you are thinking without being told. You ought to say more than you have, because you have claims that aren't sufficiently supported. But even if we were to accept that the right is antidemocratic and that the left is not antidemocratic at the same time, it still wouldn't be sufficient grounds to ignore the right anymore than it would be sufficient grounds to ignore the left, because there are still other issues to discuss. For example, the crisis at the border and Harris' lack of a response is the topic of this thread! Harris' failure to visit the border suggests that she (and by proxy the left) is ignoring it. But the border is not an issue that should be ignored simply because you believe the right is antidemocratic.Did I really need to tell you that? How come you don't already know that, or see it that way? But the fact that I did tells me that this is a dead end for us both. You likely believe that none of those things happened, or that I misunderstood their significance. As I said, there is too much gulf between us to expect to ever bridge it.
Let me know when have some evidence to support your conspiracy theory, preferably some evidence that has not been rejected after a thorough review and a failed impeachment trial.
Are you able to articulate how the legislation suppresses votes? I suspect that you cannot.
Thorough review? Are you referring to the congressional committees that wouldn't let Democrats call witnesses or participate in writing the committees' reports. Or the heavily redacted Mueller Report. I also place no value in the Republican's failure to convict Trump. This is just another example of how we're a universe apart.
Regarding Russian interference in the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections, all one need to ask is whether there a will to tamper with the election and the means.
Are you unaware of the recent developments with the Russians and Biden's sanctions of them? Have you not heard about Manafort giving election intelligence to Kilimnik in 2016 as Trump's campaign manager? Will this matter to you at all?
Treasury Escalates Sanctions Against the Russian Government’s Attempts to Influence U.S. Elections | U.S. Department of the Treasury
Here's some more news you missed. Just let me say once more that it's not that I can't defend my opinions, I just understand that there is no value in doing so with somebody whose thinking is so far from my own for reasons already given and already confirmed in this discussion.
Anyway, here's your answer. I'll leave it to you to decide why these provisions are thought to be intended to suppress the votes of people that vote against Republicans
For the record, the Republican party is about corporate, capitalist and elitist policy. There are no working class policies in the Republican party.And that's the point: even if you disagree with everything the right says, ignoring what they have to say and only listening to what other people on "your side" say is itself antidemocratic.