PureX
Veteran Member
No, and it's worrisome, because we are steadily becoming more and more effective in our arrogance/ignorance. And that's not going to end well for us.
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God does not answer prayers
- Thread starter BlueSky95
- Start date
That’s an issue that never, or rarely, arises in Hinduism because we don’t believe in the same type of God the Abrahamic religions do. Our view of God is that He does not control things to an extent anywhere near that of the Abrahamic God. On the whole we believe that our lives, and what happens to us, good or bad, are an effect of our individual karma. Good and bad are relative anyway. However, I do believe that at certain times and certain reasons God does answer prayers. Maybe not how we expect. We may get what we need, not what we want, though sometimes they are the same. So what harm can prayer do? Nothing ventured nothing gained.
The thing is that people have to wake up themselves, no one can help them, they can at least be pointed to this or that direction but the waking up is an intimate process that happens in one's most inner self. Who am I? Why do I think like this? Why do I act like this? It starts like this, with an introspection, at least this is how it started for me.
Everything is Grace
Then the question is, what God, Atman or Brahman? Atman is Brahman but Atman is also who we are and we don't know who we are, we think we know and this "thinking" is limiting us, hence the idea of Tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Oh dear, what a sensitive topic for me. I have an aversion to use of the term "God," at it does little more than create confusion.
Here's my take:
Atman is identical to Brahman. Multiplicity is an appearance. Both are nirguna, without qualities.
"God" is Brahman with qualities, which is Saguna Brahman.
PureX
Veteran Member
You're fortunate. Most people require a horrific shock to open them up to such an awakening. And even then, many will retreat as soon as they are able.
I can't pass judgment on this, however. It's a mystery beyond my reckoning.
Yes, it does create confusion and suffering and wars... my God is better than your God, on and on...
I like studying all the religions of the world but thanks to my own self influence to christianity, it's hard ( as I said some posts ago ) to go beyond your own belief systems, very hard.
Atman is Brahman.
This is what I noticed too. Suffering is like the trigger of awakening, the greater the suffering, the greater the awakening but some people can't handle this and they either hide within themselves or take their own lives. I managed to stay alive and sane, somehow.
Suffering makes you question every single thing, even the idea of who you are!!
PureX
Veteran Member
Yes; existential suffering. For me it came in the depths of an addiction, and having to face the blatant insanity of my own thinking and behavior. But there are as many ways for people to become awakened as there are people, I think.
Wood sculpture: "Awakening" 1995
Contrary to popular misconception, Brahman is not God or a deity of any kind. Brahman is all there is. Brahman is everything, it is the Ātman, universal soul, if you will.
The Upanishads say we and everything are Brahman... sarvam khalvidam brahma, “all this verily is Brahman”. For reasons I don’t understand but the rishis and acharyas do, Brahman manifests as God or Ishwara. Brahman also manifests as the world, which obstructs our view of reality. That’s māyā.
When we finally complete our spiritual journeys we have that “ah ha!” moment and achieve moksha, liberation from the cycle of rebirth.
Like I said, I don’t understand, if I did I would not be here...though some souls achieve moksha while still on their bodies. They are called jivanmukti. I take it on faith from souls greater than I.
Ditto, about it being an existential crisis. In my case it was a loss of hope and confusion about life itself in my late teens. On a subconscious level I allowed myself to break free from it in a moment, just the other side of a near death experience. That opened the door all the way. And coming home to that has been my path my whole life since. Getting into religion helped, get those first baby steps going, but it soon got in the way. It's been a path of now trying to reclaim the good from that which got tossed out with the bathwater. Somewhere, buried deep in the teachings is Truth, but it's not readily seen, and not what gets taught, by and large.
That is a cool sculpture! I really like the little cloud strikes with the eye. I think one of those was hitting me when I was 18. Been telling me, open your damned eyes already, for quite some time since. It's just a matter of looking, really. Setting down that other set of eyes and using that One Eye instead.
Different people read your post in different ways. Some people believe they are guilty of not making miracles happen and actually feel guilt of the loss of children in addition to what is natural for parents to feel or guilty of other failures. Others take your meaning in the sense that they are enabled...that it means they have the power to have miracles in their lives. What you say is not necessarily what people hear.
I feel that the quote of Jesus is a terrible interpretation of Habakkuk's interpretation of the blessings and curses. Habakkuk says the righteous will live by his faithfulness. Then in the Greek koine this becomes 'Pistis' which then in English can become either faith or faithfulness. So the way it is being worded is unfaithful to Habakkuks original sense. He wants people to take responsibility for the situation in Israel and that they are blessed if they keey the Torah and cursed if they don't. Then this implies about Jesus that he is telling this person that they have been faithful, and their faithfulness has healed them. This surprises them, because they think they need to be perfect when in fact Jesus teaches that just a tiny bit is enough to get things done. He says you need just small amount, whatever your measure is.
The extremis here and the confusion arises out of the assumption that this story of Jesus is supposed to be a model of your life. So you're suddenly responsible to be miraculous everywhere you go, and this is confusing to people. Can artists like Smith Wigglesworth make money off of such confusion. They put guilt trips onto people for not having enough miracles in their lives. They tell you you're sinning or there's something wrong with you if you aren't believing enough. That's clearly backwards to me, because what matters is how you live and how you care about others not how strongly you imagine or fantasize about miracles.
Yes... not religion which shackles people - but relationship.
Jesus went and taught ( because the truth sets you free) when he could not do miracles. Go thou and do the same
Good questions.
No... not a vending machine, and not even believing in the Trinity as One God. No such thing and "magic words" but go to your boss and flippantly and disrespectfully ask him for a raise... and see how those words will work
Is there a pattern that is correct? Yes.
I John 5: 14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.
If you can find His will in scripture... you can be sure He will answer.
On the opposite side of the coin, if God did not give you a covenant promise but you are asking for it, why would He be obliged to do it? Say... "God, I don't like my current wife, give me another one" - is He supposed to listen to that prayer?
James 1: 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;
Faith is important. Because words, actions and results follow it
On the opposite side of the coin - If you were erroneously taught that God put the sickness on you to teach you something, then there won't be faith and, more than likely, you probably will stay sick believing until the natural body and antibiotics do their thing.
and others...
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Your story is very similar with mine!! That's a very interesting sculpture, it's made by you? I write poems as a way to express myself.
I never heard this interpretation, are you sure you have it right? Jesus healed many sinners ( according to the Law ), so where was their faithfulness as the standard to be healed? They were healed simply because of their immediate faith that manifested in them as a result of hearing that such a man exists and can help. They heard of Him and believed that He has the power to heal them, their faith made it possible, without their faith, Jesus could do nothing.... so He told them, your faith has saved you!
Many make money using religion, including religion itself, because there are many seekers who are guided by blind guides.
With a spoon a prisoner can dig themselves an escape tunnel a little at time or move a mountain. So if you have some faithfulness be it ever so small it can accomplish a lot. Jesus is said to say that a person with faith be it ever so small can tell the mountain to move. What person speaks to mountains and sees them move as a result? Show me that person. Yet Jesus says if you have faith its possible.
We have this story about this man who says to Jesus "Lord I believe. Help my unbelief" and his unbelief is forgiven. I think it is forgiveness. We have another in which someone has a lot of belief, yet their prayers go unheard. James says the righteous person's prayer is heard. James 5:16-17 says that Elijah prayed for rain and was heard because he was a righteous man; but the account of this in 1 Kings 17 says nothing about Elijah praying. It is understood by James that prayer is involved, that if he commands the rain its because he is righteous. The miracles then are the result of prayer by a righteous (that is a faithful) person, even if they look like commands. That means when Jesus commands the storm what we take away from it is that he's a righteous person like Elijah. This is the understanding of Habakkuk and James and probably of Paul. The gospels, too; despite figures of speech or translation difficulties.
Therefore the conclusion to me is that Jesus must be speaking about faithfulness in almost every instance. In Hebrews it says "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," but what does the author of Hebrews mean if not that Abraham did what God said? The most famous story about Abraham is his testing by means of an act. This is the same Abraham who had to be tested against the love of his own son, not somebody who had a subtle inward shift. This was his tested belief, not some subtle invisible thought. Similarly the other NT authors say that you have to be tested and found righteous. You can't just believe things.
Wolves arise from within not from without or so says Paul. Its not the people down the street but the one sitting next to you.
I think faith leads to faithfulness, not backwards, because faithfulness implies staying in your faith, being loyal to your faith and Jesus healed many that were lacking faithfulness because of their sinns... Having faith is the first step, staying in your faith is the last step and it's called faithfulness.
How does it sound, your faithfulness saved you when you did not even had it in the first place? It does not make sense.
Everything arises from wtihin, the outside world is merely a projection of our inner world..
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Faith has never determined whether a prayer is answered or not. In reality, God will grant His children anything that does not interfere with their lesson or anyone else's lesson.
People do get sick and die regardless of how badly we want to keep them around. Without illness, mankind would never acquire the knowledge within medicine. Further, death is no more than a Change. When it's time to move forward, one must go. Do you love them enough to let them go? You see, it's about everyone. It has never been about me, me, me!
In my young single days, I went to the park on a beautiful spring day. I saw the fattest girl you could imagine sitting on a park bench. I could not believe anyone could get that fat. I said the words: " God, who in the Hell would ever take her out on a date???""
A week passed and I started getting phone calls at the apartment. It was a soft voice young lady who was very friendly and nice. Ok. Let's go on a blind date. When I showed up at her family's house, I saw her standing in the doorway. It was the girl from the park.
Let's recap. I said: God, who in the Hell would ever take her out on a date? God's unspoken reply: You, my son, You!!
Well, I learned a lot from all this like making judgment calls based upon appearance. Though our new found relationship did not work out, the fat girl did get married to a nice guy who was a traveling salesman.
Be very careful what you say. God is listening whether you might think God is or not. Be very careful what you ask and what you ask for because you might just get it.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!