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Featured God And Homosexuality

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, May 14, 2020.

  1. Left Coast

    Left Coast He/Him
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    Great question! One of the reasons why I don't accept the concept any longer.

    "I have a black friend" does not impress me. I didnt judge you, I judged what you said. You believe things that are simply unfounded about my community.

    That's true - the pain I'm in is being told hurtful things that aren't true about myself and my LGBTQ brothers and sisters by people like you.

    Your attempted guilt trip is noted, and won't work.
     
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  2. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I don't know what you think a mainstream church is, but it's generally-accepted that the RCC, ECUSA, PUSA, ELCA, UMC, DOC, UCC, Lutheran Missouri Synod, and American Baptists are all mainstream. Most of them approve.
     
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  3. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    first, Jesus was a product of his culture. When he spoke of marriage, he spoke from what the culture knew. Since the culture was unaware of sexual orientation, Jesus couldn't speak to anything different.
    Second, Jesus never said one thing about homosexuality. Not one. He never even mentioned same-sex acts at all. So, to say "Jesus said blah-blah-blah" is disingenuous.

    I think that's disingenuous. There are Jesus quotes, and then there is everything else. In order to have a pure reading, we can only say, "Paul is quoted as saying yadda yadda..." to blur that is just bad scholarship, because it puts in place an unnecessary and unwanted bias of the reading.
     
  4. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Because we live in a society. This isn't about "what we do," it's about who we are. And who we are is reflected by our fellows. One's sexual orientation isn't just some hobby we can pick up and lay down. It's a HUGE part of our self-identity -- it's … who we are. Those who identify as homosexual are in a minority -- and it's historically been a minority without a voice and without any social power. In most states, it's still OK to discriminate against those who identify as homosexual. When those in the majority -- and those who wield power -- speak out in judgment against homosexuality, it dehumanizes those who identify as such. It claims that their very identity as human beings is invalid. It does not allow them an identity and an expression that lets them be fully and wholly human. It claims that who they are is somehow "broken." Dehumanization in this way is a form of violence. It's the same kind of dehumanization perpetrated upon blacks, treating them as "less than human, or, at best, "lesser humans." It's violence because it represents an attack of the powerful against those who are not allowed to have a voice. It's violence because it emotionally (and many times physically, as we saw recently in Minneapolis) damages people. It's systemic because the social power structure supports it.

    Science has determined that homosexuality is a normal and healthy expression of humanity. It does not appear as an "aberration" or "Illness" in the DSM-IV. Therefore, the majority social power structure is wrong in speaking out, in acting out, in discriminating, singling out, and claiming that those who identify as homosexual are in any way different or less than others.

    Homosexuality isn't sin. The bible never speaks about homosexuality. The bible is not the best indicator of what is and is not "normal" physically, psychologically, medically.
     
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  5. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    If they endorse gay marriage then they're UNBIBLICAL. Gay sex / gay marriage are sins. Any church endorsing sin is more a synagogue of Satan than a church of Jesus Christ.
     
  6. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    That wasn't your original claim. You said no mainstream church supports gay people, and were blatantly wrong (as usual).
     
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  7. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    How dare you.
     
  8. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    Oh, but somehow the sky falls down when it's two men. Nice hypocrisy. Might that have to do with your own personal tastes in bed? :rolleyes:
     
  9. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    If they oppose slavery then they're UNBIBLICAL.

    I find it obvious that scriptural morality is primitive, even evil sometimes. But if you stick to Jesus what you'll find is stuff like:

    "Love your God
    Love your neighbor.
    The rest is details."

    And
    "The Beatitudes."

    And
    "What you do for the Least you do for Me."

    Things like that.

    Too bad Christians don't find Jesus so inspiring, and go with Paul and Moses when they're more convenient.
    Tom
     
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  10. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Why would I care about sin?
    I care very much about morality.

    By morality I mean recognition that we must treat each other well for our own benefit. By sin I mean breaking rules created by primitive people thousands of years ago.

    Why would I care about sin? Why should I care about your opinions concerning behavior that you know little about?
    Tom
     
  11. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    How do you figure, since the bible says 0, zip, nada, bupkis, nothing, with regard to homosexuality? And if one thinks one sees it mentioned, one is wearing bigot-colored glasses. That means that your bias and your devaluing of human life is what's "UNBIBLICAL" -- (Thanks for shouting at me, BTW), since the bible speaks out against both. Do you really think it's worth going there over your mistaken read of the bible?

    How do you figure? 1) Gay sex isn't mentioned in the bible, and if … (see above). 2) Marriage is marriage. Marriage is neither gay nor straight. Only people can be gay or straight. People have sexual orientations. Marriage does not. Therefore, your "sin" is nonexistent. Furthermore, churches endorse marriage as the only "honorable estate" among two people who love each other. Surely you're not saying that marriage is a bad thing?! Are you really prepared to condemn and dehumanize some over a nonexistent sin?

    I'm not aware of any churches "endorsing sin." Wait! Yes I am! Westboro Baptist Church endorses a sin -- the sin of systemic violence.

    Although, I have to admit: "Synagogue of Satan" would be a great name for a shock rock band... The band mates could wear matching red outfits, have lots of pyrotechnics, play B.C. Rich guitars, wear ghoulish makeup, have cool stage names like "Dimebag Darrell" and "Marilyn Manson," have a singer with really long hair hanging over his face yell raspily and unintelligibly into a microphone, use skeletons wearing party hats as stage props, and damage the hearing of America's youth. Yeah! That would be KEWL!!! And not in the least "gay!!"


    Nobody's buying what your posts are selling.




    Except the part about the kewl band!
     
  12. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I must have missed the part where Jesus said, "You must judge, condemn, and commit systemic violence against your neighbor."


    And the part where Jesus said, "Gay = yukky."
     
  13. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    This is really terrible theology. Human sex drive =/= "being animals." Theologically, sex and fulfillment are equated with each other. have you ever read Song of Solomon??
     
  14. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    What is premarital sex, given that a biblical marriage is simply a personal agreement between two people to shack up together and doesn't require a legally signed marriage contract or a wedding celebrant or witnesses? Which is why Abraham shacked up with his sister Sarah.

    And well may that be your "honest opinion", but Jesus didn't claim to be a god, nor to be without sin (Mark 10:18), nor to be a saviour, nor to have sex with a church since he loved one of his disciples. He only claimed to be a prophet even though his own family (including his mother and her husband) didn't believe him (Matt 13:55-58 John 7:5). And he unsuccessfully appealed for help from his god when he was being executed by the Romans for sedition and mocked as the "King of the Jews", which is hardly a god-like trait.
     
    #674 Mitty, Jun 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  15. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    None of that changes the fact that the bible says absolutely nothing about female homosexuality, and only refers to anal sex of women and men (Romans 1:26-27 Leviticus 18 & 20).

    And where does the bible say that anal sex is permissible and that anal sex is the "natural use of the woman" (Romans 1:26-27), or did you just make that up too?
    And what is the difference between a male or female anus apart from being a contraceptive device?

    NONSENSE. the word eunuch means bedchamber attendant and has nothing what-so-ever to do with their sexual abilities.

    And are you claiming that homosexual clergymen are eunuchs and particularly if they remain celibate. And if so, was Jesus a eunuch too and why he asked his followers to accept that some men do not marry because they are so born from their mothers' wombs (Matt 19:12) and why he loved one of his disciples and not a wife?

    Was Queen Candace's bedchamber attendant a homosexual and is that why Philip groped him in his chariot (Acts 8:27-29)?
     
    #675 Mitty, Jun 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  16. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    So why did Jesus love one of his disciples instead of a wife? And is that why he said nothing about homosexuality?
     
  17. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    That's only your personal opinion, given that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality and why he loved one of his disciples instead of a wife.
     
  18. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Where does the bible say that, or did you just make that up? Either way, it still doesn't change the fact that the head of the Anglican Church supports same-sex marriage and even signed it in to law?
     
  19. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Your pro-Sodomy defense isn't making it. God's not buying it either. Get a new mutt to run around the arena.
     
  20. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where you get that from. Paul and Jesus agreed on the major tenets of the faith.

    Did Jesus and Paul teach the same thing? | CARM.org
     
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