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Featured Genesis 1:26 and the Trinity

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Xavier Graham SA, Oct 6, 2021.

  1. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you mean by a 3rd singular..... What is that?
     
  2. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Third person singular - "And he said"
     
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  3. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    How do you get 3? Where is that coming from... Totally not seeing this....
     
  4. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    First person is I, me
    Second person is You
    Third person is He, she, it

    Saying "And he said" is writing using the third person.
     
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  5. Mark La Buda

    Mark La Buda Member

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    Genesis 1:26 is referring to God Almighty and Jesus.

    God’s first creation was his “only-begotten Son” (John 3:16), and “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Revelation 3:14) This one, “the firstborn of all creation,” was used by God in creating all other things, those in the heavens and those upon the earth, “the things visible and the things invisible.” (Colossians 1:15-18) John’s inspired testimony concerning this Son, the Word, is that “all things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence,” and the apostle identifies the Word as Jesus Christ, who had become flesh. (John 1:3, 10, 14) As wisdom personified, this One is represented as saying, “God himself produced me as the beginning of his way,” and he tells of his association with God the Creator as His “master worker.”-Proverbs 8:22-31.
     
  6. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    The Word was with God at the beginning. Not created by God.
     
  7. Mark La Buda

    Mark La Buda Member

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    Your reply-for a start-contradicts Collisions 1:15-18. Will or can you reconcile this?
     
  8. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    You will have to tell me what part contradicts anything.
     
  9. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
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    REGARDING WHO GOD THE FATHER WAS SPEAKING TO IN GENESIS 1:26 "LET US CREATE MANKIND IN OUR IMAGE..."

    Xavier Graham SA, in the OP said : "I was taught in church that the “us” was proof of the Trinity. Those who don’t believe in the Trinity, who are the “us” in this verse? I’m curious (opening post)

    Hi @Xavier Graham SA



    The early Judeo-Christians tell us in their literature, that they believed that God the Father was talking to the son.

    For examples :

    Barnabas explains For the Scripture speaks about us when he says to the Son: “Let us make man according to our image and likeness, … These things he said to the Son.” The Epistle of Barnabas 6:12;

    If it is not clear that Jesus (as the “word”) was in the beginning WITH God, Barnabas repeats this same point in 5:5 “…he is Lord of the whole world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, “Let us make man according to our image and likeness, how is it, then, that he submitted to suffer at the hands of men.?“ The Epistle of Barnabas

    Even Jewish Enoch gives us the same testimony that John 1:1 gives concerning “the Word was in the beginning WITH God“. Jewish Enoch describes the Word as the “son of man” who was WITH the Lord of Spirits (i.e. God the Father of spirits). The text reads : “ … that Son of Man was given a name, in the presence of the Lord of the Spirits, the beginning of days, 3 even before the creation of the sun and the moon, before the creation of the stars, he was given a name in the presence of the Lord of the Spirits. 4 He will become a staff for the righteous ones in order that they may lean on him and not fall. He is the light of the gentiles and he will become the hope of those who are sick in their hearts. 5 All those who dwell upon the earth shall fall and worship before him: they shall glorify, bless, and sing the name of the Lord of the Spirits. 6 For this purpose he became the Chosen One…” 1st Enoch 48:1-7;

    One of the converts of the apostle Peter is Clement. Clement explains very very clearly that the Christians at that time taught that God the Father is the ultimate creator of the Universe but that he accomplished it through his Servant Jesus. Clement describes this early Christian doctrine saying that God was “…the creator of the universe...through his beloved servant Jesus Christ, through whom he called us from darkness to light, from ignorance to the knowledge of the glory of his name. “ 1 Clement 59:2-3;

    While such texts do not describe the same model of a trinity of individuals who are the same being, they do answer the question regarding who THEY thought the Father was speaking to when he spoke the words "Let US create man in our own image...."

    Good luck coming to your own beliefs and models of these traditions @Xavier Graham SA

    Clear
    ειφυειφιω
     
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  10. Bree

    Bree Active Member

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    The 'us' are God and his Son Christ Jesus.

    John 1:1 'in the beginning the Word was with God'

    John 17:5 Jesus says "So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was"
     
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  11. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    The Qur'an also uses "we" when G-d is speaking..

    It is a feature of literary style in Arabic that a person may refer to himself by the pronoun nahnu (we) for respect or glorification. He may also use the word ana (I), indicating one person, or the third person huwa (he). All three styles are used in the Qur’an, where G-d addresses the Arabs in their own tongue.

    We get the same thing in the French language.
    Vous is used in preference to tu when speaking to an adult.

    In English, we have the Royal "we"..

    In any case, I can assure you that it has nothing to do with a trinity :)
     
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  12. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    lostwanderingsoul BUT....
    Jesus is "The LIFE" the Tree of Life was taken away from Adam so he died; Adam was removed from Paradise where the Tree grew! Jesus "Is the Life come down from heaven!" Jesus is the True Manna that gives LIFE to the world!
    The Holy Spirit is the mind of God the Holy Spirit knows truth of Good & Evil! When you have eternal life you will live forever then you will get to know the mind of God!
    I say the Tree of Good & Evil is The Holy Spirit.
    The Tree of Life is Jesus

    17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
    1 John 5:3
    In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

    lostwanderingsoul Adam did not love God! Adan did NOT keep the command of God! Adam did not know the mind of God!
     
  13. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    Nimos yes but... You are then forced to reject the scriptures to say there is no trinity! You are forced to reject what Christians have always believed!
    23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us).
    Isaiah 7:14
    Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

    Nimos Jesus is telling you "You are NOT blessed!"
    John 20: 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
    28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!
    29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed
    .”

    John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
     
  14. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Never heard this before. God is made up of the Father and two trees. Very interesting idea.
     
  15. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    lostwanderingsoul Clearly you don't read the bible!
    God is "LIFE!"
    He is also Light!
    John 1:4
    In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
    John 9:5
    While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

    John 6:50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
    John 6:53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
     
  16. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    [John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.]

    What version of the bible are you reading? It's not a very good one, I can tell you that right now.... Looks like some things have been added into the bible it's self....

    That line "who is himself God" has been added into your version of the bible. Or... you just making that up to prove that there is a trinity, which there is not....

    This is what it should say...

    "18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
    Bosom of the Father, means in the care of....

    No man has ever seen God, are you still saying that Jesus is God? Doesnt make sense, does it.....
     
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  17. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    moorea944 good to meet you....
    I reply: Take your pick... You don't like what you read.. Don't blame me! I did not write the scriptures God did!
    AMPC
    No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].
    CSB
    No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.
    CEB
    No one has ever seen God. God the only Son, who is at the Father’s side, has made God known.
    CJB
    No one has ever seen God; but the only and unique Son, who is identical with God and is at the Father’s side — he has made him known.
    CEV
    No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.
    DLNT
    No one has ever seen God; the only-born God, the One being in the bosom of the Father— that One expounded Him.
    ERV
    No one has ever seen God. The only Son is the one who has shown us what God is like. He is himself God and is very close to the Father.
    EXB
    No one has ever seen God [C God the Father, who is pure spirit; 4:24]. But ·God the only Son [God the one and only; the only Son who is himself God; T God the only begotten] is ·very close to [by the side of; close to the heart of; T in the bosom of] the Father, and he has ·shown us what God is like [made him known].
    GNT
    No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
    ISV
    No one has ever seen God. The uniquely existing God, who is close to the Father’s side, has revealed him.
    PHILLIPS
    So the word of God became a human being and lived among us. We saw his splendour (the splendour as of a father’s only son), full of grace and truth. And it was about him that John stood up and testified, exclaiming: “Here is the one I was speaking about when I said that although he would come after me he would always be in front of me; for he existed before I was born!” Indeed, every one of us has shared in his riches—there is a grace in our lives because of his grace. For while the Law was given by Moses, love and truth came through Jesus Christ. It is true that no one has ever seen God at any time. Yet the divine and only Son, who lives in the closest intimacy with the Father, has made him known.
    TLB
    No one has ever actually seen God, but, of course, his only Son has, for he is the companion of the Father and has told us all about him.
    MSG
    We all live off his generous abundance, gift after gift after gift. We got the basics from Moses, and then this exuberant giving and receiving, This endless knowing and understanding— all this came through Jesus, the Messiah. No one has ever seen God, not so much as a glimpse. This one-of-a-kind God-Expression, who exists at the very heart of the Father, has made him plain as day.
    MOUNCE
    No one has ever seen God. The only Son, himself God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
    NABRE
    No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.
    NASB
    No one has seen God at any time; God the only Son, who is in the arms of the Father, He has explained Him.
    NASB1995
    No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
    NCB
    No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, who has made him known.
    NCV
    No one has ever seen God. But God the only Son is very close to the Father, and he has shown us what God is like.
    NET
    No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.
    NIRV
    No one has ever seen God. But the One and Only is God and is at the Father’s side. The one at the Father’s side has shown us what God is like.
    NIV
    No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
    NIVUK
    No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in the closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
    etc
    etc







     
  18. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    Im not sure what this has to do with the trinity, can you elaborate on that?

    But if you read on the very next passage say this:

    John 20:27-31
    27 - Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”
    28 - Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
    29 - Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
    30 - Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;

    31 - but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.


    This one seem to depend highly on which translation you use, sometime it uses God, and other times it refer to the "only child/son".

    Im not saying that the trinity isn't true, simply that for me personally it doesn't seem to be the case when you read the bible.
     
  19. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    Those bibles have horrible translations compared to the org. txt.
    KJV and ESV are very good. I already gave you the KJV and here is the ESV

    "18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known."

    The ESV matches up with the KJV. A lot of your newer or college made translations, are not very good. Very trinitarian. Like I said before, they are adding in words.........
     
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  20. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    The one most used by serious theologians is the RSV, which one can find on-line here: Bible: Revised Standard Version (umich.edu)

    I personally have the Catholic edition of the RSV but use the on-line version above most often.
     
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