Genesis 1:26 and the Trinity

[Dogknox20]

Im not sure what this has to do with the trinity, can you elaborate on that?


But if you read on the very next passage say this:

John 20:27-31
27 - Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”
28 - Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 - Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
30 - Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
31 - but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.


This one seem to depend highly on which translation you use, sometime it uses God, and other times it refer to the "only child/son".

Im not saying that the trinity isn't true, simply that for me personally it doesn't seem to be the case when you read the bible.

28 - Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 - Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
30 - Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
31 - but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.


Nimos Am I suppose to believe if you have a child it will look like and act as a Cow? If God has a Child it will be like God! Jesus is the Son of God so he is like God! Jesus is the Son of Man so he will also be like Man! Jesus is the God/Man!

Nimos Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. Blessed as those who believed LIKE Thomas... "Thomas the Christian!” Christians have ALWAYS believed and Taught Jesus is God! If you reject what Thomas the Christian believed then you are NOT blessed you are NOT Christian!

You want elaboration on this verse..... 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”). Well it is quite simple "Jesus is God"!

Nimos Here is a few other verses for you to mull over.... John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. Clearly God became Flesh! The Word became flesh means.... "God became a MAN!"
Nimos Through the WORD all things were made.. The WORD is Jesus!
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth........... = .......... 3 Through him (The WORD) all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Word was God.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Nimos Maybe you don't understand these scripture verses..? Do you want me to elaborate? It comes down to this.. Believing what Christians believe or rejecting the teaching of the "Christ Followers"!

 

[Dogknox20]

Those bibles have horrible translations compared to the org. txt.
KJV and ESV are very good. I already gave you the KJV and here is the ESV

"18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known."

The ESV matches up with the KJV. A lot of your newer or college made translations, are not very good. Very trinitarian. Like I said before, they are adding in words.........

.
All very nice... I don't write the scriptures I post them!
You don't like Jesus being God so you reject any verses saying such as being wrong!
moorea944 YES.. The ESV is a very good translation.. Jesus was at God' side....... Jesus was NOT created Jesus is the Creator!
ESV
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

ESV
John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

ESV
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..If God has a Child it will be like God!..

That's daft.
If G-d had a Mother, it will be like G-d.
If G-d had a Father, it will be like G-d.
If G-d had a Daughter, it will be like G-d.

How many gods are there again?
Only one you say, as they all have the same essence..
Essence? You mean they all have the same DNA?
All from the same family?

G-d has many sons.
..but not like Jesus, you say. True.
Only Jesus is Jesus.
..and only G-d is G-d !

 

[Nimos]

Nimos Am I suppose to believe if you have a child it will look like and act as a Cow? If God has a Child it will be like God! Jesus is the Son of God so he is like God! Jesus is the Son of Man so he will also be like Man! Jesus is the God/Man!

I would agree if we were talking the material world that follows the known laws of nature. But we are talking about something supernatural, so basically anything goes. Jesus could be God or like God or he could not. God created everything after all, many things which are nothing like him.

Nimos Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. Blessed as those who believed LIKE Thomas... "Thomas the Christian!” Christians have ALWAYS believed and Taught Jesus is God! If you reject what Thomas the Christian believed then you are NOT blessed you are NOT Christian!

That Christians have believed something to be true always, doesn't mean that it is also correct. JWs, Muslims etc. do not believe that Jesus is God for instance. And if those Christians that believe in the trinity are wrong, then not being blessed is irrelevant, because they were never blessed to begin with.

You want elaboration on this verse..... 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”). Well it is quite simple "Jesus is God"!

I doubt that, given how Jesus speak with God and refer to him as being far superior to him. Again, its my personal understanding of reading the bible. I don't see it referring to a trinity. Given how God have interacted with people in OT and even in NT when he speaks with Jesus, the sudden shift seems awfully strange to me.

Nimos Here is a few other verses for you to mull over.... John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. Clearly God became Flesh! The Word became flesh means.... "God became a MAN!"
Nimos Through the WORD all things were made.. The WORD is Jesus!
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth........... = .......... 3 Through him (The WORD) all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Word was God.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Nimos Maybe you don't understand these scripture verses..? Do you want me to elaborate? It comes down to this.. Believing what Christians believe or rejecting the teaching of the "Christ Followers"!

I get that, but again, I find it very strange that John is pretty much the only Gospel pushing this. None of the others seems to think this is especially important information if that were in fact the case.

Looking at Luke for instance:

Luke 2:52
52 - And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.

Why would he be in favor of himself?

1 Timothy 2:3-6
3 - This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
4 - who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 - For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 - who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Why make the distinction if Jesus is God?

John 3:16-17
16 - “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17 - For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

If Jesus is God, this passage makes no sense at all. Because God didn't give his only son to anything, if it was himself. Also notice that it say "but in order to be saved through him" and not by him.

Which seems to fit well with:

Isaiah 43:11
11 - I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Only God can save people and no one else. Which again seems to fit with what Jesus is saying himself:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 - “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 - On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 - And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Why would Jesus refer to God as the authority, if he himself is God? Again that doesn't make any sense. Also Jesus should be able to save anyone if he were God.
But Jesus will not allow or backup anyone that doesn't follow the law of God. So again, adding it all together, one can be saved through Jesus, if you follow him and do what he teaches, but ultimately God is the one that saves you, not Jesus. And the way one is saved according to Jesus, is to do what God commanded, meaning following the law.

 

[Dogknox20]

I would agree if we were talking the material world that follows the known laws of nature. But we are talking about something supernatural, so basically anything goes. Jesus could be God or like God or he could not. God created everything after all, many things which are nothing like him.
That Christians have believed something to be true always, doesn't mean that it is also correct. JWs, Muslims etc. do not believe that Jesus is God for instance. And if those Christians that believe in the trinity are wrong, then not being blessed is irrelevant, because they were never blessed to begin with.
I doubt that, given how Jesus speak with God and refer to him as being far superior to him. Again, its my personal understanding of reading the bible. I don't see it referring to a trinity. Given how God have interacted with people in OT and even in NT when he speaks with Jesus, the sudden shift seems awfully strange to me.
I get that, but again, I find it very strange that John is pretty much the only Gospel pushing this. None of the others seems to think this is especially important information if that were in fact the case.Looking at Luke for instance:
Luke 2:52
52 - And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.
Why would he be in favor of himself?
1 Timothy 2:3-6
3 - This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
4 - who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 - For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 - who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
Why make the distinction if Jesus is God?
John 3:16-17
16 - “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17 - For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

If Jesus is God, this passage makes no sense at all. Because God didn't give his only son to anything, if it was himself. Also notice that it say "but in order to be saved through him" and not by him.

Which seems to fit well with:

Isaiah 43:11
11 - I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Only God can save people and no one else. Which again seems to fit with what Jesus is saying himself:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 - “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 - On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 - And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Why would Jesus refer to God as the authority, if he himself is God? Again that doesn't make any sense. Also Jesus should be able to save anyone if he were God.
But Jesus will not allow or backup anyone that doesn't follow the law of God. So again, adding it all together, one can be saved through Jesus, if you follow him and do what he teaches, but ultimately God is the one that saves you, not Jesus. And the way one is saved according to Jesus, is to do what God commanded, meaning following the law.

Nimos Hello again..
One thing at a time!
Worship is ONLY for God! Jesus tells Satan.. "Worship and serve ONLY God!"
Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

Jesus knows beyond all doubt... "Worship ONLY God"! The people WORSHIP Jesus and Jesus never correct them! Jesus never stops the worship of himself! You would think; God would have told us in the scriptures of this grave mistake on the part of Jesus! Satan is NOT God; But: Jesus allows them to worship himself! From his birth he was Worshiped to his death he was worshiped! YOU DON'T read Jesus correcting Thomas when he made the statement "My God"! FACT....

Nimos fact is, you don't read Jesus correcting Thomas; Jesus takes it even further he tells Thomas that Christians will be Blessed for Believing as he Thomas does!"

 

[Dogknox20]

That's daft.
If G-d had a Mother, it will be like G-d.
If G-d had a Father, it will be like G-d.
If G-d had a Daughter, it will be like G-d.

How many gods are there again?
Only one you say, as they all have the same essence..
Essence? You mean they all have the same DNA?
All from the same family?

G-d has many sons.
..but not like Jesus, you say. True.
Only Jesus is Jesus.
..and only G-d is G-d !

muhammad_isa God has ONLY one Son.. Jesus!
The Mother of Jesus is Mary!
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
The Spouse of Mary is God. God foretold long ago about the birth of His ONLY Son!

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

Christians believe in One God.... Three make up this one God! Father Son and Holy Spirit!
Matthew 1:22 Now all this happened to fulfill what was declared by the Lord through the prophet when he said,
23 “See, a virgin will become pregnant
and give birth to a son,
and they will name him Immanuel,”
which means, “God with us.”

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Maybe it should say "no man has seen the Father, but the Son who is also God has made Him known".

 

[muhammad_isa]

..You would think; God would have told us in the scriptures of this grave mistake on the part of Jesus!

1. G-d did not write the NT
2. @Nimos has already quoted passages from the NT which you have ignored.

 

[CrochetOverCoffee]

Your reply-for a start-contradicts Collisions 1:15-18. Will or can you reconcile this?

There is no contradiction. Verse 18 specifies firstborn from the dead. That doesn't mean firstborn creation. It means that He is the first to be resurrected after the cross.

 

[Nimos]

Worship is ONLY for God! Jesus tells Satan.. "Worship and serve ONLY God!"
Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

Im not sure, I agree with you on this for several reasons.

God doesn't want people to worship other gods, that is correct as it is one of the 10 commandments. But I don't believe or remember the bible mention anything about worshipping none gods?

Obviously it depends on what meaning one puts in the word worship.

1: to honor or show reverence for a divine being or supernatural power
2: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

If people worship Jesus out of respect, honor or devotion due to his knowledge of the scriptures and he is not considered God, there shouldn't really be anything wrong with it as I see it.
Also "and him only shall you serve." there is a difference between worship and serve here, that is not the same.

Secondly, the whole encounter between Jesus and Satan is extremely weird if Jesus is God in my opinion, if we start with the baptize of Jesus on the page just before it and go through it verse by verse.

Mat 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him.
Mat 3:14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
Mat 3:15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented.
Mat 3:16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;
Mat 3:17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

So Jesus (God) saw himself (spirit of God) descend upon him, to then have himself talk from heaven and tell himself how pleased he is with himself in the form of him being in the shape of himself as his Son... that to me seems extremely weird to be honest. Following that we get to the temptation.

Matthew 4:1
1 - Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Jesus (God) is then led by himself into the desert to be tempted by Satan.

Matthew 4:3
3 - And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

So Satan tries to tempt him and strangely refer to him as the "Son of God", I know Satan is the villain of the story and inferior to God, but I don't think the bible depict him as being outright stupid.

Matthew 4:7-11
7 - Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
8 - Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
9 - And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”
10 - Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”
11 - Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.

At this point Jesus (God) and Satan are alone or at least that is the impression one gets. Yet he keep trying to tempt him with the most insignificant things imaginable. Satan as a fallen angel that rebelled against God must know that Jesus and God are one and the same, if Jesus were there from the beginning. The story doesn't make a whole lot of sense if Jesus is God, neither from the perspective of God, Satan or even as a lesson for mere humans. Nothing can possibly be learned from this.

Jesus, if God, is not even remotely close to being tempted by what Satan has to offer. Humans reading the story, knowing that God can do anything he wants, will find absolutely no lesson to be learned here. Its like someone trying to bribe Bill Gates to do a murder and offer him 1 dollars and somehow think that it will make people wonder if he would actually do the murder.

The only way any lesson can be gain from this story is if Jesus as the Son of God is having a direct confrontation with Satan.

And if you disagree, what lesson do you get from it, if Jesus is in fact God?

Matthew 1:22 Now all this happened to fulfill what was declared by the Lord through the prophet when he said,
23 “See, a virgin will become pregnant
and give birth to a son,
and they will name him Immanuel,”
which means, “God with us.”

Yes, but this could easily mean that God is acting through Jesus, just as we today can say that we pray and hope for the best or are with someone, like for instance the causalities of the tsunami some years ago. If God send Jesus to Earth to help teach humans the correct way, especially because Jesus is highly opposed to the Pharisees and the scribes that he really don't like, because they don't follow the law but exploit it. Which we can read on the very next page of the bible.

Matthew 5:17-20
17 - “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 - For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 - Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 - For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus, at least to me, makes it very clear that the law given to them by God is to be followed and that anyone that does as the Pharisees or the scribes, meaning doesn't follow it, will not get into heaven or be saved. Which again as in my last reply, seems to fit very well with Jesus saying that one is saved by following the law.

Matthew 7:21-23
21 - “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 - On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 - And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

So again, for me personally, if Jesus is God a lot of these things that Jesus say are extremely weird and I didn't get the impression at all that there is talk of a trinity when I read the bible. But that Jesus is the Son of God and much more than just a prophet, he is unique and special to God as his Son, but he is not God the father.

 

[Dogknox20]

There is no contradiction. Verse 18 specifies firstborn from the dead. That doesn't mean firstborn creation. It means that He is the first to be resurrected after the cross.

.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

The Church is the Body of Jesus! Jesus died for the Church he LOVES the Church!
Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

The Body of Jesus is in heaven as well as here on earth!
The first day of Pentecost Peter IMMERSED 3000 into the Body of Jesus by baptism!
Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

CrochetOverCoffee The Anti-Christ wants his followers to believe Jesus failed that Jesus built on Sand not on Rock! He would have his followers believe they need to establish the Church that Jesus failed to establish!
Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of time.”

The Ani-Christ is Anti-Christian he would never ever have the Christian symbol of the cross on any of his churches! He would not have his followers use the cross, he would teach a stake is what Jesus died on! It was the Cross that defeated Satan; it was on the Cross that Jesus destroyed Death and restored Life to man!

 

[CrochetOverCoffee]

.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

The Church is the Body of Jesus! Jesus died for the Church he LOVES the Church!
Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

The Body of Jesus is in heaven as well as here on earth!
The first day of Pentecost Peter IMMERSED 3000 into the Body of Jesus by baptism!
Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

CrochetOverCoffee The Anti-Christ wants his followers to believe Jesus failed that Jesus built on Sand not on Rock! He would have his followers believe they need to establish the Church that Jesus failed to establish!
Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of time.”

The Ani-Christ is Anti-Christian he would never ever have the Christian symbol of the cross on any of his churches! He would not have his followers use the cross, he would teach a stake is what Jesus died on! It was the Cross that defeated Satan; it was on the Cross that Jesus destroyed Death and restored Life to man!

All of that is true without there being a contradiction between Christ being the firstborn and His not having a beginning.

 

[DNB]

Genesis 1 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
I was taught in church that the “us” was proof of the Trinity. Those who don’t believe in the Trinity, who are the “us” in this verse? I’m curious

The heavenly council. They were created in God's image, in the same way that man was about to be - spiritual creatures with the ability to comprehend morality and revere God. God continuously uses spiritual agents (angels) to perform tasks on His behalf, His conversation with them is neither peculiar nor esoteric. Several passages in the Bible speak of the heavenly council.
The landslide majority of creation texts in the Bible, claim that it is the Father who created all things. The passage is a remote exception, that does not warrant its irregular language to make the rule.

 

[Dogknox20]

All of that is true without there being a contradiction between Christ being the firstborn and His not having a beginning.

.
CrochetOverCoffee I think the "First Born" part is important because the first-born enjoyed special privileges. Special blessing was reserved to him at his father’s death, and he succeeded him as the head of the family, receiving a double portion among his brothers.

Deuteronomy 21:17 He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him.

Also it included a right to the priesthood.
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

Hebrews 1:6 “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

CrochetOverCoffee "First Born" is not saying there are other children it is saying Jesus had right that come to the First Born!

 

[Dogknox20]

1. G-d did not write the NT
2. @Nimos has already quoted passages from the NT which you have ignored.

Scriptures please... Show me the scriptures that say "God did not write the "New Testament"!? Jesus is God he created all things..
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Nemos asked.... How can God be in favor of God!?
Luke 2:52
And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.

I have pointed it out before.. Jesus is a MAN/GOD! The Father was pleased with how his Son (Jesus') wisdom had increased!

muhammad_isa THINK: Can't die as a Man if first not born as a Man! Jesus was BORN as a baby! How many people do you know that are born fully grown?
ONLY GOD IS PERFECT
The First PERFECT "MAN" was Adam; this PERFECT man sinned; freely choosing to sin! No one forced this PERFECT MAN to freely decide to reject God' command! Adam brought Corruption into God' perfect creation! God does all things perfectly, if he did not he himself would not be God! FACT: God made Adam PERFECT!
muhammad_isa All of us are born imperfect because we are descendances of Adam the sinner! Adam corrupted creation so we are born corrupted!

Jesus is the SECOND perfect MAN to be born! Jesus came to save us, by dyeing "SINLESS" he rose from the grave; Death could not hold Jesus in the grave he was sinless.. Without sin!
....."The Wages of Sin is death"!

Jesus the second Adam rose from the grave he resurrected NEVER EVER to die again! You can't die twice; Jesus has been there and done that! What we have to do is get ourselves IMMERSED (Baptized) into the risen can't die body of Jesus! If you are "IN Jesus" you also will rise to new life! Peter ADDED 3000 people to the body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost!

Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

ONLY God is sinless! God came to save us! God became part of his own creation!

 

[Dogknox20]

Maybe it should say "no man has seen the Father, but the Son who is also God has made Him known".

lostwanderingsoul I hope all is well...
John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Jesus came as a Man so he could die as a man! Can't did as a man if at first not born as a man! Jesus was born PERFECT; sinless he rose from the grave because he was without sin "The wages of Sin is death"!
Death could not hold Jesus he resurrected, he rose never to die again! No one can die twice!

Only God is perfect, only God is sinless. God came to us to save us from death! God became part of his own creation! Jesus died on a cross and it was on the cross that he destroyed death and restored life! The Cross is used by Christians it is their symbol showing the world they are "Christ Followers"! Satan hates the cross; it was the cross that defeated him!
lostwanderingsoul Satan is Anti-Christ (Anti-Christian) he would never ever have a cross on any of his churches he would not allow his followers to mention the cross! Satan would teach Hell is not everlasting, he would teach Heaven is full no need for us to try to get there all 144,000 seats are full!

Jesus rose never to die again; Jesus lives eternally so will we if we get IMMERSED (Baptized) into his resurrected body!

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

lostwanderingsoul I hope all is well...
John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Jesus came as a Man so he could die as a man! Can't did as a man if at first not born as a man! Jesus was born PERFECT; sinless he rose from the grave because he was without sin "The wages of Sin is death"!
Death could not hold Jesus he resurrected, he rose never to die again! No one can die twice!

Only God is perfect, only God is sinless. God came to us to save us from death! God became part of his own creation! Jesus died on a cross and it was on the cross that he destroyed death and restored life! The Cross is used by Christians it is their symbol showing the world they are "Christ Followers"! Satan hates the cross; it was the cross that defeated him!
lostwanderingsoul Satan is Anti-Christ (Anti-Christian) he would never ever have a cross on any of his churches he would not allow his followers to mention the cross! Satan would teach Hell is not everlasting, he would teach Heaven is full no need for us to try to get there all 144,000 seats are full!

Jesus rose never to die again; Jesus lives eternally so will we if we get IMMERSED (Baptized) into his resurrected body!

OR.....Maybe if we opened our minds and not just believe everything a church tells us .... Maybe Satan loves the cross because he knows that is where his enemy Jesus died. And maybe he would want his followers to wear crosses to celebrate the way his enemy died. Maybe an open mind can see many things a closed mind cannot.

 

[muhammad_isa]

(satan) would not allow his followers to mention the cross!

I don't know why not. It was satan who orchestrated it.

 

[moorea944]

lostwanderingsoul I hope all is well...
John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Jesus came as a Man so he could die as a man! Can't did as a man if at first not born as a man! Jesus was born PERFECT; sinless he rose from the grave because he was without sin "The wages of Sin is death"!
Death could not hold Jesus he resurrected, he rose never to die again! No one can die twice!

Only God is perfect, only God is sinless. God came to us to save us from death! God became part of his own creation! Jesus died on a cross and it was on the cross that he destroyed death and restored life! The Cross is used by Christians it is their symbol showing the world they are "Christ Followers"! Satan hates the cross; it was the cross that defeated him!
lostwanderingsoul Satan is Anti-Christ (Anti-Christian) he would never ever have a cross on any of his churches he would not allow his followers to mention the cross! Satan would teach Hell is not everlasting, he would teach Heaven is full no need for us to try to get there all 144,000 seats are full!

Jesus rose never to die again; Jesus lives eternally so will we if we get IMMERSED (Baptized) into his resurrected body!

"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
You have to stop reading these new versions of the bible, it's throwing you off. Your readings lines that are not in the org. txt. But anyhow.....

[Jesus was born PERFECT;]
No he wasnt. Scripture tells us that he eventually was made perfect by the things he suffered..... He wasnt born perfect

[No one can die twice!]
Actually they can or will...... At resurrection, people, not all, will be raised. Some will be granted eternal life and some will be put back in the grave. They will die twice, but the second time will be forever.

[ God became part of his own creation!]
Huh??.....

[Jesus rose never to die again; Jesus lives eternally so will we if we get IMMERSED (Baptized) into his resurrected body!]
We are actually baptized into his death. Also by his death we are reconciled to God and by his resurrection we are saved.

 

[Dogknox20]

OR.....Maybe if we opened our minds and not just believe everything a church tells us .... Maybe Satan loves the cross because he knows that is where his enemy Jesus died. And maybe he would want his followers to wear crosses to celebrate the way his enemy died. Maybe an open mind can see many things a closed mind cannot.

.
lostwanderingsoul Hello again...
Jesus established a "Church"! Jesus built his Church on ROCK (not on sand)! Those who say the Church failed MUST reject all the scriptures that say, God cannot lie or fail!
It's the foolish man that builds on sand.. QUESTION: Is Jesus a fool?!

It's the Anti-Christ that will teach the Church Jesus build failed ...Question: Did Jesus fail?
lostwanderingsoul Did Jesus abandon his body!?

Matthew 28:20 Teach them to do everything I have commanded you. “And remember that I am always with you until the end of time.”

Did Satan somehow overpower Jesus, did Satan take the Body of Jesus away from Jesus?! I am always with you until the end of time.
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Did Jesus commission his Holy Church to; TEACH all nations is Jesus ALWAYS with the TEACHERS to the end of time?!? What scriptures do you have to reject to say "Yes"?

Jesus loves his One Holy Church with roots going back 2000 years to the Apostles!? Jesus died for His Holy Church!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

lostwanderingsoul You blame the Church?! Satan blames the Church, he teaches Jesus failed that his followers need to reestablish the Church Jesus failed! Example: A man named Charles Taze Russell came alone 1900 years after Jesus and claimed just that; that he needed to build the church because Jesus' went off the rails! He also claimed that the first of his followers are in heaven 144,000 so Heaven is full, no room left don't try to get to heaven!
The scriptures tell you the 144,000 are: Male VIRGINS!
The 144,000 are of Jewish decent!
Question how many of the so called 144,000 followers of Charles Taze Russell were Male Virgins of Jewish decent?!
Revelation 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb.

Revelation 7:4
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.