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Gender Fluidity

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Genderfluid - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've settled on the "Gender Fluid" label for myself.

Well, maybe a slightly tweaked version of it, where I can sometimes present more feminine or more masculine, except I just don't tend to present super-masculine, and my pronouns can be "she/her" or "they/them", and they can be used interchangeably or you can use one or the other and at any given time - unlike some Gender Fluid people I've seen, where they wish to be called certain things at certain times based on their feelings that day or for those few hours, or that week.

The positives I find to this label is I feel it doesn't carry the same baggage or expectations as the word "trans", that it allows more experimenting than "non-binary" labels in general (just in my opinion).

The negatives I've encountered are that if dating other people, your gender fluidity generally only means you'll be compatible with bi and pansexual people. And another potential one is I don't always agree with how some other Gender Fluid people present their gender fluidity, and it's a way I try not to. I've seen Gender Fluid people change their gender every hour, without telling the other person, just kind of changing the idea in their head temporarily, then kind of getting irritated at the person when they misgender them the next time, when that person is just using the pronouns that they agreed to earlier. Doing what I just mentioned may work for some people, and some couples, I guess, everyone's different - but to me, I see it as a little bit attention-seeking.

As for the broader subject of Gender Fluid, I'm not sure it needs as much awareness in general as trans per se, but I think sometimes that "spreading awareness" might be part of the problem which leads to unnecessary discrimination of trans people (at times). But I still thought it an interesting subject to bring up as far as this forum goes, especially with there seeming to be such an interest here in "Definitions" of things and introductory learning about them - lol.
 

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
Nonbinary genders like genderfluid are still accepted under the transgender label, at least under the LGBTQIA+ framework. This is similar to how "bisexual" used to be synonymous with "pansexual." Just if you didn't know. Transgender awareness isn't just for binary trans people.

I do think that people who expect everyone else to read their minds to know their pronouns are being unreasonable, although I think we should have compassion for them. They're often experiencing swings of dysphoria. The usual solution in the queer spaces that I've been in is to simply refer to them with a nonbinary "they/them" to avoid stepping too much on their dysphoria one way or the other. It's not a perfect solution, but most genderfluid people that experience such rapid shifts grow to understand and accept it as the best solution we have for now.

Congratulations on making progress on understanding yourself a bit better.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Genderfluid works best for me as well. I don't present differently (outside of not caring about a few articles of clothing and occasionally shopping from the women's section), and my presentation is for the most part male, but my mentality often drifts here and there, and I am much more comfortable while either writing, narrating, or otherwise depicting from a feminine perspective.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I grew up in a generation before any of this terminology was widely discussed or a thing. I settled on just dismissing the entire social construct of gender as bull crap. I don't believe in gender; one could say I'm anti-gender and believe human society would be better off without it. I believe people are simply people, and there is no need to create these social construct binaries of "masculine" and "feminine." I believe this binary creates social expectations and social dynamics that are inherently sexist, and that sexism is problematic. I also believe this binary has such a stranglehold on human culture I have to deal with it whether I want to or not. I also believe in respecting human diversity, and that includes respecting other people's use of the cultural construct of gender in spite of my disdain for it.

So instead, I mostly advocate for nonbinary ways of approaching the topic of gender. It could be that if I had grown up in a healthier social environment on this topic, I wouldn't have settled on dismissing the entire thing as bull crap. It's also possible that if I had grown up in a non-patriarchal, non-misogynistic environment, I wouldn't have settled on dismissing the entire thing as bull crap. We are all very much the product of our upbringings. Moving past that can be possible, but not always desirable and often difficult. I applaud anyone who takes the time and has the courage to work through these things for themselves. You are being able to do things that people of my generation rarely could or did. Cherish that, embrace that, and us allies have got your back. You do you, and you be you!

:hugehug:
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
There's help for an excess of gender fluidity.
R.4125547aad0ebaed2a2557a3b4943221
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Hay mate. Whatever makes you happy. Life is too short
If you feel that identity suits you, then I’m happy for you


I grew up in a generation before any of this terminology was widely discussed or a thing. I settled on just dismissing the entire social construct of gender as bull crap. I don't believe in gender; one could say I'm anti-gender and believe human society would be better off without it. I believe people are simply people, and there is no need to create these social construct binaries of "masculine" and "feminine." I believe this binary creates social expectations and social dynamics that are inherently sexist, and that sexism is problematic. I also believe this binary has such a stranglehold on human culture I have to deal with it whether I want to or not. I also believe in respecting human diversity, and that includes respecting other people's use of the cultural construct of gender in spite of my disdain for it.

So instead, I mostly advocate for nonbinary ways of approaching the topic of gender. It could be that if I had grown up in a healthier social environment on this topic, I wouldn't have settled on dismissing the entire thing as bull crap. It's also possible that if I had grown up in a non-patriarchal, non-misogynistic environment, I wouldn't have settled on dismissing the entire thing as bull crap. We are all very much the product of our upbringings. Moving past that can be possible, but not always desirable and often difficult. I applaud anyone who takes the time and has the courage to work through these things for themselves. You are being able to do things that people of my generation rarely could or did. Cherish that, embrace that, and us allies have got your back. You do you, and you be you!

:hugehug:
Hmm product of our environment. I sometimes wonder if my own “fluidity” is due to my upbringing.

Growing up in two different cultures each with its own distinct definitions of femininity and masculinity. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes I have to “translate them” to others in my life.
And indeed I had to often criss cross in them, as a matter of just life.

This I think has caused me to always think of femininity and masculinity as fluid concepts in and of themselves.

I sometimes wonder if I fit into such a non binary category myself. Since I don’t really care that much about gender conformity. I wear baggy “guy type” clothes because I prefer the casual comfortable nature of them. But I also love wearing jewellery.
People mistakenly think I have many ear piercings because I’m “alternative” or an edgy leftist or whatever
In reality it’s literally just a common part of my cultural background lol (Fiji Indian.)

Maybe gender apathy best describes my attitude lol
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I've seen Gender Fluid people change their gender every hour, without telling the other person, just kind of changing the idea in their head temporarily, then kind of getting irritated at the person when they misgender them the next time, when that person is just using the pronouns that they agreed to earlier. Doing what I just mentioned may work for some people, and some couples, I guess, everyone's different - but to me, I see it as a little bit attention-seeking.

Gender fluid people are just like everyone else in that respect.

What I've seen since I was growing up in the 1950's is that the hard gender lines have softened and started to disappear. When I was young, there was men's work (in the world) and women's work (at home). It was OK for men to be angry but not to cry. And so forth.

Of course these rules have not disappeared but the boundaries are a lot fuzzier than they used to be and I celebrate that progress.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Based on all the scientific evidence, our sex is defined at conception. One may argue life starts at birth or conception, but there is no doubt sex is assigned at conception. This is based on the fertilized ovum having either X or Y chromosomes. By the time we are fully mature, every one of our trillions of cells, that make up our bodies, will all have either X or Y chromosomes. Take a DNA test to prove it to yourself. Take samples from a wide range of cell types. This includes all the cells of our brain, which is the seat of consciousness.

How can one have natural gender fluidity, when our sexual foundation is carved into the genetic stone for all our cells and not just the cells of our sex organs? This perception of gender fluidity has to do with human imagination, conditioning, will and choice. Humans have will and choice and can ignore natural instinct, bt not forever.

The small child may pretend to be a little doggie, even though they have human DNA. There is no little doggie gene in their human DNA. This common child behavior is a product of their active imagination. The imagination does not have to be in touch with natural or any type of cause and affect. In the case of the child, this imaginary play is based on using embryonic will and choice to copy the flow of the imagination. The secret world of Walter Mitty.

Could this child behavior, of pretending to be a little doggie, be extended beyond into adulthood? An adult playing the role of a doggie, would not be socially acceptable, since it no longer based on a stage of life action, but has become more of a pathology that can diversely impact further development. However, if we ask the political Left, to make a law that forces everyone to keep applauding and accept this into adulthood, one can continue the imaginary play. But what is the price since this is out of sequence with their natural DNA? All their cells will revolt, and over compensation may appear to compensate for this inner natural doubt.

Every cell in that child's body says human, but their imagination says dog. Is this stable into adulthood or will it need constant reinforcement to perpetuate it beyond childhood? This is why the Left keeps this under everyone noses; desensitize, and then tries to force a type of acceptance conformity, while making it taboo to talk science and DNA.

What is the purpose of this Left wing social engineering experiment? it is not naturally helpful so it has to be an experiment. The goal of the experiment seems to be to keep those who are part of this experiment, unconscious. Is the end game birth control, since this would be a logical result of using imagination and will instead of natural DNA to define sex/gender? One might expect to see a hybrid affect; natural DNA human compulsions with a doggie twist.

This reminds me of the Shakespeare quote; All the world is a stage. Actors can play any role, such as doggie, using will and choice. But acting is way more fun if you have an audience. This explains the need to force everyone to fill the academic and social theatre and watch politely, suspending reason.

Keep in mind, you all may have a law suit against the DNC for practicing voodoo medicine on people without a license.
 
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The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
I just check my plumbing. It's not difficult to discern.
How wonderful that you are cisgendered; for others it's not so easy to discern, especially with a cisheteronormative society breathing down their necks.

Based on all the scientific evidence, our sex is defined at conception.
We're not talking about biological sex. (Which based on all scientific evidence is also not a strict binary).
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Based on all the scientific evidence, our sex is defined at conception. One may argue life starts at birth or conception, but there is no doubt sex is assigned at conception. This is based on the fertilized ovum having either X or Y chromosomes. By the time we are fully mature, every one of our trillions of cells, that make up our bodies, will all have either X or Y chromosomes.
Oh, it can be so much more complex than that.
A tip of that iceberg....
Human genetic disease - Abnormalities of the sex chromosomes
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Based on all the scientific evidence, our sex is defined at conception. One may argue life starts at birth or conception, but there is no doubt sex is assigned at conception. This is based on the fertilized ovum having either X or Y chromosomes. By the time we are fully mature, every one of our trillions of cells, that make up our bodies, will all have either X or Y chromosomes. Take a DNA test to prove it to yourself. Take samples from a wide range of cell types. This includes all the cells of our brain, which is the seat of consciousness.

How can one have natural gender fluidity, when our sexual foundation is carved into the genetic stone for all our cells and not just the cells of our sex organs? This perception of gender fluidity has to do with human imagination, conditioning, will and choice. Humans have will and choice and can ignore natural instinct, bt not forever.

I just check my plumbing. It's not difficult to discern.

You have two different facets of biological sex here: genital and genetic. These don't always match up; other facets, such as hormonal, can influence the development of a person's biological sex.

And biological sex is different from gender, but I am sure this isn't a new concept. (Just ignored.)

Certain aspects are very malleable, and where socially we attach gender to physical characteristics, humans are capable of shaping these things to align better to the individual.
 

idea

Question Everything
I'm asexual (abuse). As a teacher, I use they/them for all my students, it's just easier to call everyone the same thing. One of my kids is trans/L. Grandparents/relatives still call them by their birth name and I feel bad for that. Looking back at their pictures, should have never had them in a dress.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Hmm product of our environment. I sometimes wonder if my own “fluidity” is due to my upbringing.

Growing up in two different cultures each with its own distinct definitions of femininity and masculinity. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes I have to “translate them” to others in my life.
And indeed I had to often criss cross in them, as a matter of just life.

This I think has caused me to always think of femininity and masculinity as fluid concepts in and of themselves.

Yes, that makes sense for me. In my childhood, the ideas of what "masculine" and "feminine" meant were much more rigid. It wasn't fluid. I'm old enough that I grew up in an environment that was sort of permissive of "girls" acting like "boys" and "boys" acting like "girls" but the notion of behaviors and personality traits belonging to each was still a thing. And because I had interests for the "wrong" sex, well... while my parents were accepting of it, others were often not.

Like you, I didn't give a crap about conforming to others expectations of me because I happened to have been born with a certain set of genitals. I didn't feel that mattered (and still don't). But what I felt about it was in some respects irrelevant when I lived in a culture that did keep insisting that mattered. This is part of why I feel tolerance of diversity and teaching about that diversity here is so important.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Genderfluid - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've settled on the "Gender Fluid" label for myself.

Well, maybe a slightly tweaked version of it, where I can sometimes present more feminine or more masculine, except I just don't tend to present super-masculine, and my pronouns can be "she/her" or "they/them", and they can be used interchangeably or you can use one or the other and at any given time - unlike some Gender Fluid people I've seen, where they wish to be called certain things at certain times based on their feelings that day or for those few hours, or that week.

The positives I find to this label is I feel it doesn't carry the same baggage or expectations as the word "trans", that it allows more experimenting than "non-binary" labels in general (just in my opinion).

The negatives I've encountered are that if dating other people, your gender fluidity generally only means you'll be compatible with bi and pansexual people. And another potential one is I don't always agree with how some other Gender Fluid people present their gender fluidity, and it's a way I try not to. I've seen Gender Fluid people change their gender every hour, without telling the other person, just kind of changing the idea in their head temporarily, then kind of getting irritated at the person when they misgender them the next time, when that person is just using the pronouns that they agreed to earlier. Doing what I just mentioned may work for some people, and some couples, I guess, everyone's different - but to me, I see it as a little bit attention-seeking.

As for the broader subject of Gender Fluid, I'm not sure it needs as much awareness in general as trans per se, but I think sometimes that "spreading awareness" might be part of the problem which leads to unnecessary discrimination of trans people (at times). But I still thought it an interesting subject to bring up as far as this forum goes, especially with there seeming to be such an interest here in "Definitions" of things and introductory learning about them - lol.

May I ask how old you are?
 

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
Based on all the scientific evidence, our sex is defined at conception. One may argue life starts at birth or conception, but there is no doubt sex is assigned at conception. This is based on the fertilized ovum having either X or Y chromosomes. By the time we are fully mature, every one of our trillions of cells, that make up our bodies, will all have either X or Y chromosomes. Take a DNA test to prove it to yourself. Take samples from a wide range of cell types. This includes all the cells of our brain, which is the seat of consciousness.

How can one have natural gender fluidity, when our sexual foundation is carved into the genetic stone for all our cells and not just the cells of our sex organs? This perception of gender fluidity has to do with human imagination, conditioning, will and choice. Humans have will and choice and can ignore natural instinct, bt not forever.

The small child may pretend to be a little doggie, even though they have human DNA. There is no little doggie gene in their human DNA. This common child behavior is a product of their active imagination. The imagination does not have to be in touch with natural or any type of cause and affect. In the case of the child, this imaginary play is based on using embryonic will and choice to copy the flow of the imagination. The secret world of Walter Mitty.

Could this child behavior, of pretending to be a little doggie, be extended beyond into adulthood? An adult playing the role of a doggie, would not be socially acceptable, since it no longer based on a stage of life action, but has become more of a pathology that can diversely impact further development. However, if we ask the political Left, to make a law that forces everyone to keep applauding and accept this into adulthood, one can continue the imaginary play. But what is the price since this is out of sequence with their natural DNA? All their cells will revolt, and over compensation may appear to compensate for this inner natural doubt.

Every cell in that child's body says human, but their imagination says dog. Is this stable into adulthood or will it need constant reinforcement to perpetuate it beyond childhood? This is why the Left keeps this under everyone noses; desensitize, and then tries to force a type of acceptance conformity, while making it taboo to talk science and DNA.

What is the purpose of this Left wing social engineering experiment? it is not naturally helpful so it has to be an experiment. The goal of the experiment seems to be to keep those who are part of this experiment, unconscious. Is the end game birth control, since this would be a logical result of using imagination and will instead of natural DNA to define sex/gender? One might expect to see a hybrid affect; natural DNA human compulsions with a doggie twist.

This reminds me of the Shakespeare quote; All the world is a stage. Actors can play any role, such as doggie, using will and choice. But acting is way more fun if you have an audience. This explains the need to force everyone to fill the academic and social theatre and watch politely, suspending reason.

Keep in mind, you all may have a law suit against the DNC for practicing voodoo medicine on people without a license.

Gender is not imaginary. It's well-attested to exist in psychiatry, neuroscience, psychology, sociology, and anthropology. It can be diagnosed and measured.

Denying the existence of gender is about as anti-scientific as denying the existence of Parkinson's Disease or, for an example from another field, denying the human affects on climate change. It's a completely unreasonable and untenable position to hold.

It's also inaccurate to conflate chromosomal and anatomical sex, and to assume that these sexes are a binary. Biologists and medical researchers have known otherwise for quite some time now.

Your entire reply is not only ignorant, but bordering on irrational prejudice. How can you claim to oppose "voodoo medicine" when your entire post relies on nothing else?
 
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