Gender Fluidity

[The Sum of Awe]

Yeah. I'm not sure where Sum of Awe got the idea that physical dysphoria is in the minority. The view that dysphoria is what makes a person trans is by no means unpopular, even if some disagree. I don't think a single trans person I've ever met would say, "You're a trans man because you like wearing leather jackets!" ... like no, haha.

To be fair, a lot of discussion of the topic of transgenderism that I've had has only been on Reddit. I have seen enough people describe it that way that causes me to think that many are identifying as trans without fully understanding what it means, which could lead to misfortune, and I don't think it's their fault.

 

[Ella S.]

Well, yeah. If you have no dysphoria and feel no need to physically transition, you're simply not transgender. End of story.

I think you don't know what "gender dysphoria" is if you think gender euphoria isn't an example:

The DSM-5 Diagnostic Criteria for Gender Dysphoria | Abdominal Key

Key is this part:

A. A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender, of at least 6 months’ duration, as manifested by at least two of the following:

1. A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics (or in young adolescents, the anticipated secondary sex characteristics)
2. A strong desire to be rid of one’s primary and/or secondary sex characteristics because of a marked incongruence with one’s experienced/expressed gender (or in young adolescents, a desire to prevent the development of the anticipated secondary sex characteristics)
3. A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender
4. A strong desire to be of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
5. A strong desire to be treated as the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
6. A strong conviction that one has the typical feelings and reactions of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)

So you could have only 4 and 5 due to gender euphoria and still meet the clinical criteria for gender dysphoria.

 

[VoidCat]

I think the problem is, what ever is happening now in pursuit of gender freedom, is actualized as an over emphasis on labeling. Perhaps this is natural, and neccessary as the pendulum of cultural norms is equalizing? But this need for young people to label themselves isn't without consequences.

For example, we have a friend, a parent who confided in us that their child is troubled and confused because in their friend group it has become very important for everyone to label themselves by gender and sexuality. And because their child is a bit of a late bloomer physically, this labeling is ambiguous especially regarding their sexuality. The child has been convinced by their friends that they are asexual, but the child doesn't know really, and the parent feels this is harmful, and we ( my spouse and I ) agree.

As I said, maybe this is necessary, at least for now. But if the goal is to abolish gender, wouldn't that entail abolishing this incessant labeling, and let people be free to behave how they choose to?

I will appreciate any feedback you choose to provide.

Thank you,

I think its ok to call oneself asexual as a child. I did. All it means is the person dont experience sexual attraction. If the person dont and they wish to label themselves that even if they a child to me that would be fine. You can always change a label if later it dont fit. As long as its clear that labels are not definors they are descriptors and one doesnt have to have one nor do they have to keep one if they find it no longer find it fits. Also no one should force a label onto someone that's what it sounds like here. The child doesnt know if that's a label that fits them from my understanding. Its harmful that the other kids tried to force that label onto them. No one should label anyone else regarding sexuality it should be up to the person. Thats the issue im having reading this not that the kid might be labeling onself asexual but that kids or trying to force that label onto them when they themselves dont know if thats the case.

Also want to add no harm in putting a label on sexual orientation thinking that that's possibly a good label and not being entirely sure it is and later keeping it or changing it when they figured it out for sure. But again that has to be up to the person not to other people.

 

[VoidCat]

If not being able to pick a label that satisfies them is causing them anxiety, tell your friends to sit down with their child and tell the child they love them regardless, and it's not unusual to feel this way at that age. Tell your friends to tell their child that their feelings can change or evolve over time, and that is okay. They don't need to find a label either, if they don't want to. Also remind your friends that having anxiety about your child experiencing identity stress is normal, too. I didn't know I was asexual at that age, so I used a different label to explain myself. I just thought I was picky or too busy with high school. I wasn't harmed in the long run thinking that I was something I was not.

That's my recommendation.

This

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think you don't know what "gender dysphoria" is if you think gender euphoria isn't an example:

The DSM-5 Diagnostic Criteria for Gender Dysphoria | Abdominal Key

Key is this part:



So you could have only 4 and 5 due to gender euphoria and still meet the clinical criteria for gender dysphoria.

"Gender euphoria" is a term people made up on the Internet, like from Tumblr or Reddit. It never made much sense to me. If you don't have a desire to transition and don't feel discomfort towards your body, then you simply don't have dysphoria and what is the point of even going to a doctor about it? You go to the doctor when you desire to medically transition. You can be gender queer, non-binary, androgynous, whatever without being diagnosed with anything. There's many non-binary identified people who never do anything to transition but change their pronouns. That's not what dysphoria is and it's actually insulting to equate that with the very real experience of severe disconnection with and hatred of your body that it causes. I haven't been on testosterone for almost a decade just because I decided I'd look hot with a beard and shaved head (as I lost all my hair due to male pattern baldness).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

To be fair, a lot of discussion of the topic of transgenderism that I've had has only been on Reddit. I have seen enough people describe it that way that causes me to think that many are identifying as trans without fully understanding what it means, which could lead to misfortune, and I don't think it's their fault.

They most certainly are. I've known several of those people personally. I've known people who were okay'ed for surgery when they never should've been.

 

[Ella S.]

"Gender euphoria" is a term people made up on the Internet, like from Tumblr or Reddit. It never made much sense to me. If you don't have a desire to transition and don't feel discomfort towards your body, then you simply don't have dysphoria and what is the point of even going to a doctor about it? You go to the doctor when you desire to medically transition. You can be gender queer, non-binary, androgynous, whatever without being diagnosed with anything. There's many non-binary identified people who never do anything to transition but change their pronouns. That's not what dysphoria is and it's actually insulting to equate that with the very real experience of severe disconnection with and hatred of your body that it causes. I haven't been on testosterone for almost a decade just because I decided I'd look hot with a beard and shaved head (as I lost all my hair due to male pattern baldness).

I don't care if the clinical diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria is "insulting" to you; that's how it's defined and your understanding of it is only one possible expression of gender dysphoria.

If you're going to continue slinging your intolerant ignorance even after I've provided the precise definition of gender dysphoria used by medical experts, then we have nothing to discuss. You're willfully ignorant for the sake of bigotry at that point, as far as I'm concerned.