Gay Radicals Disrupt/Protest Worship Services

[Mr Spinkles]

Now, here's the problem - if this incident did occur, I have not seen anything condemning it from within the LGBT community. Now, I absolutely agree that the entire LGBT community cannot be blamed for the actions of a few radicals, but when the radicals strike and do something out of bounds, something intolerant and bigoted like this, the LGBT mainstream has to condemn it. After all, when African Americans did violent protests, Martin Luther King and the NAACP always roundly condemned them.

The protest in question, while wrong, was not violent. I'm pretty sure most people in the LGBT community are unaware that the protest in question occurred. Furthermore, I believe everyone who learned about it through this thread DID condemn it.

 

[lilithu]

Now, here's the problem - if this incident did occur, I have not seen anything condemning it from within the LGBT community. Now, I absolutely agree that the entire LGBT community cannot be blamed for the actions of a few radicals, but when the radicals strike and do something out of bounds, something intolerant and bigoted like this, the LGBT mainstream has to condemn it. After all, when African Americans did violent protests, Martin Luther King and the NAACP always roundly condemned them.

Oh bother. OK, from now on if anyone who is Jewish does anything wrong, I am going to be watching to see if you condemn it. Because if you don't condemn it, it's obvious that you support it. :sarcastic

 

[gnomon]

Now, here's the problem - if this incident did occur, I have not seen anything condemning it from within the LGBT community. Now, I absolutely agree that the entire LGBT community cannot be blamed for the actions of a few radicals, but when the radicals strike and do something out of bounds, something intolerant and bigoted like this, the LGBT mainstream has to condemn it. After all, when African Americans did violent protests, Martin Luther King and the NAACP always roundly condemned them.

Of course, my entire point is washed away if, as some claim, this incident did not occur.

Have you looked?

Maybe search around for some online communities for the GLBTI and see what they say?

I hopped over to LDS.net and saw mixed reactions over the issue. I also saw a far more respectable response. I also did not see anyone removing their support over crass generalizations.

I have seen people on this website, gay and straight, stating that the actions of protesters who go too far is wrong.

If I do not post a condemnation of the KKK on this forum every day does that mean I support them? If muslims do not condemn the actions of a small number of extremists on this forum on a continual basis does that mean they support them?

 

[gnomon]

OK, first there's this:

Article on incident in OP

Here is a quote from that:



And here's the Wiki entry for Bash Back!, the group that staged this protest.

Here's a quote from that:



The point is that this organization has been criticized by most other GLBTQ movements. Every place I've read about them or this incident now has called them "radicals", meaning they are not your usual gay protesters, just like Muslim radicals were the ones responsible for 9/11. Also, in the comments after the story linked to in the OP, I didn't see any that didn't condemn the actions in the story, and there were many gay posters. Again, here I haven't seen anyone actually think this was the right thing to do. I'm not exactly sure who you want to condemn this, but I'd think that was good enough to show you that Bash Back! is the minority and not nearly the entire No on Prop 8 community.

Excellent work, sir!

 

[Women_Of_Reason]

Here's another one :
Some in the LGBT community, while disapproving of Mount Hope Church's stance on homosexuality, also condemned the actions of Bash Back!
"While Alliance of LGBT Students disagrees with Mount Hope's hurtful stance that homosexuality and transgenderism are sins, we categorically condemn the actions of BashBack! which not only disrespected the congregation, broke the law and put people in physical danger, but are also not beneficial to the LGBT movement," said Michigan State University Alliance Program Director Justin Lippi.

Inform yourself before opening your mouth.

 

[LittlePinky82]

Because a race isnt an organization ..niether is a demographic..

I would imagine though..that in this instance ..there were some black people at the church and some people from rural communities..

I mean if gay people wanted to protest against for instance "rural dwellers" where would they go that they know the "rurals gather"??..Down a country road in the middle of nowhere??Maybe a cow field?..And same with "blacks"...where would they go to find the black people helping to organize and put through Prop 8?

The bottom line is its church organizations that pulled this thing together..(Proposition 8)..And members of those churches are most likely where you will find the majority of Yes on prop 8 people..The ones leading the cause..

Love

Dallas

Exactly. People just voting is just that but the Mormons put a heck of a lot of money on this issue. Especially if the church was from another state all together!

 

[LittlePinky82]

Oh bother. OK, from now on if anyone who is Jewish does anything wrong, I am going to be watching to see if you condemn it. Because if you don't condemn it, it's obvious that you support it. :sarcastic

Start with AIPAC.

 

[lilithu]

People just voting is just that but the Mormons put a heck of a lot of money on this issue. Especially if the church was from another state all together!

I do think it's wrong for interest groups from outside the state to try to exert undue influence on decisions being made inside a state. Perhaps California should change its laws to address that. :sarcastic Heck, perhaps Cali should revamp its ridiculous ballot initiative laws while it's at it.

That said, it was not "the Mormons." It was some Mormons and yes, the Mormon church. That distinction is as important as the distinction between the protesters in the OP and the BGLT community. I am flabbergasted that people on both sides continue to point to one while being blind to the other.

 

[Autodidact]

Don't all the Mormons tithe to the LDS Chruch? So it's their money that was spent?

 

[lilithu]

Don't all the Mormons tithe to the LDS Chruch? So it's their money that was spent?

Do you pay taxes Auto?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Don't all the Mormons tithe to the LDS Chruch? So it's their money that was spent?

Like I mentioned in the other thread, I looked at the public records for campaign donations, and at least in the largest donors (I didn't go through the whole list page by page), it didn't look like the LDS Church itself contributed anything to the "yes on 8" campaign. There were sizable donations from Catholic organizations (in particular the Knights of Columbus and the American Council of Catholic Bishops) and plenty of donations from mainstream Protestant churches and nominally Christian organizations, but nothing officially from the LDS Church itself.

Now... there were a lot of donations from private individuals and companies in Utah. It looks to me like most of the LDS Church's involvement was in persuading people to donate to the cause, not donating to the cause itself.

Edit: I suppose you could look at tithing to the LDS Church as a sort of meta-donation to the campaign, but when it comes right down to it, if you want to figure out whether a particular Mormon supported the campaign directly, it's a matter of public record.

 

[lilithu]

Like I mentioned in the other thread, I looked at the public records for campaign donations, and at least in the largest donors (I didn't go through the whole list page by page), it didn't look like the LDS Church itself contributed anything to the "yes on 8" campaign. There were sizable donations from Catholic organizations (in particular the Knights of Columbus and the American Council of Catholic Bishops) and plenty of donations from mainstream Protestant churches and nominally Christian organizations, but nothing officially from the LDS Church itself.

Which begs the question of why all the ire is directed at the Mormons. :sarcastic

I'd say that all this has really opened my eyes to the anti-Mormon bigotry that is lying dormant just waiting for an excuse to express it. And I'm not just talking about out in the greater world; I'm talking about here on RF.

(btw, thanks 9/10ths)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Which begs the question of why all the ire is directed at the Mormons. :sarcastic

My guess is that part of it is that some people want to protest against someone, and they're loathe to take on what they see as the Christian establishment in a country like the United States. The Mormons are "fringe" enough that they're safer to attack.

BTW - I was wrong. I found the LDS Church's campaign contribution:

Contributor nameThe Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints
OccupationEmployer
CitySalt Lake City
State or countryUT
ZIP
PositionSupport
Amount$2,864.21
Payment type
Transaction date11/1/2008
Committee nameProtectmarriage.com - Yes On 8, A Project Of California Renewal

Less that three thousand bloody dollars.

In contrast, Focus on the Family apparently donated at least $500,000 of its own money to the "yes" campaign.

 

[lilithu]

My guess is that part of it is that some people want to protest against someone, and they're loathe to take on what they see as the Christian establishment in a country like the United States. The Mormons are "fringe" enough that they're safer to attack.

BTW - I was wrong. I found the LDS Church's campaign contribution:


Less that three thousand bloody dollars.

In contrast, Focus on the Family apparently donated at least $500,000 of its own money to the "yes" campaign.

And people don't think that Focus on the Family is fringe enough to go after??! :areyoucra

That organization exists for no other reason than to impose their far right religious agenda on the rest of society. I'm not saying that they don't have the right to do what they do - of course they do - but they would still be the ones to go after if one wanted to fight.

 

[Magic Man]

I'd say that all this has really opened my eyes to the anti-Mormon bigotry that is lying dormant just waiting for an excuse to express it. And I'm not just talking about out in the greater world; I'm talking about here on RF.

I'd love for you to point out some of this "bigotry". Otherwise, I'll consider this an empty accusation.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And people don't think that Focus on the Family is fringe enough to go after??! :areyoucra

That organization exists for no other reason than to impose their far right religious agenda on the rest of society. I'm not saying that they don't have the right to do what they do - of course they do - but they would still be the ones to go after if one wanted to fight.

Yeah... maybe my theory was wrong.

The American Family Association also donated $500,000, and the LGBT community has shown no reluctance at all to go after them before.

 

[lilithu]

I'd love for you to point out some of this "bigotry". Otherwise, I'll consider this an empty accusation.

I'm sorry, do you really need me to find all the posts where RFers have lumped all Mormons together and/or suggested that all Mormons deserved the anger being directed at them?

And that's just the obvious stuff.

Any time one holds an entire group accountable for the actions of just a few, that's bigotry.

As 9/10ths and I were discussing, if several groups are responsible for something but people only go after one of those several groups, that is evidence of bigotry.

 

[Magic Man]

I'm sorry, do you really need me to find all the posts where RFers have lumped all Mormons together and/or suggested that all Mormons deserved the anger being directed at them?

And that's just the obvious stuff.

Any time one holds an entire group accountable for the actions of just a few, that's bigotry.

Yes, I want you to actually show me some of this. I want to see more than one example of it.

As 9/10ths and I were discussing, if several groups are responsible for something but people only go after one of those several groups, that is evidence of bigotry.

No, that's evidence that that particular group is very vocal about that issue. Sure, there are many groups that supported Prop 8, but the Mormon church was very outspoken on it. Obviously the protests should not all be directed at them, but they're not. There have been protests in places other than Mormon churches.

 

[Autodidact]

Yes, and if the Iraqis want to blame "The Americans" for invading their country, I would accept that association. It doesn't mean that I agreed, but that yes, our representatives did that in our name.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes, the gay activists who got disruptive and hostile should've conducted themselves with more tact and discipline. Harassment and intimidation is not a very effective way of swaying peoples' hearts to be more tolerant and accepting. Not that I don't understand their anger and frustrations.

Also, it is unfortunate that innocent Mormons who didn't support their church's stance still got swept up in the backlash towards their church.