Finding a new church or worship center

[Kenny]

Please, you know that is not true. In our exchanges you have always been the one that eschewed reason. As you have hear in this thread. All you have are personal attacks when your poor reasoning is pointed out.

Nice personal attack.

 

[Kenny]

Except for the fact that several of their churches including the Dallas church has had to close down because the pastor had an affair with a woman he met in the park. They also abused the finances and had several affairs between leaders and followers. There have been many complaints.

The pastor is no longer pastor... but the people are still great leaders and great people.

But, like I said, just go to different churches until you find one that you sense "this is home".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nice personal attack.

No, that was an attack on the reasoning that you have used in the past. I don't know why, but when we debate you rarely use rational thought. It was not a statement that you can't reason rationally. Your religious beliefs may be causing cognitive dissonance on your part.

 

[Kenny]

No, that was an attack on the reasoning that you have used in the past. I don't know why, but when we debate you rarely use rational thought. It was not a statement that you can't reason rationally. Your religious beliefs may be causing cognitive dissonance on your part.

I really don't see it that way.

Perhaps I understand because I have been somewhat in your shoes. Within the context of my signature, disconnected and even on a different wavelength.

Paul said it this way: MSG The unspiritual self, just as it is by nature, can’t receive the gifts of God’s Spirit. There’s no capacity for them. They seem like so much silliness. Spirit can be known only by spirit—God’s Spirit and our spirits in open communion. Spiritually alive, we have access to everything God’s Spirit is doing, and can’t be judged by unspiritual critics. Isaiah’s question, “Is there anyone around who knows God’s Spirit, anyone who knows what he is doing?” has been answered: Christ knows, and we have Christ’s Spirit.

So I don't take it personal.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I really don't see it that way.

Perhaps I understand because I have been somewhat in your shoes. Within the context of my signature, disconnected and even on a different wavelength.

Paul said it this way: MSG The unspiritual self, just as it is by nature, can’t receive the gifts of God’s Spirit. There’s no capacity for them. They seem like so much silliness. Spirit can be known only by spirit—God’s Spirit and our spirits in open communion. Spiritually alive, we have access to everything God’s Spirit is doing, and can’t be judged by unspiritual critics. Isaiah’s question, “Is there anyone around who knows God’s Spirit, anyone who knows what he is doing?” has been answered: Christ knows, and we have Christ’s Spirit.

So I don't take it personal.

And that is a defensive passage in the Bible that makes false claims about others. He was making unwarranted personal attacks. How could he or you justify that claim?

 

[Kenny]

And that is a defensive passage in the Bible that makes false claims about others. He was making unwarranted personal attacks. How could he or you justify that claim?

I thought it was pretty clear.

You think that the cross is a myth and we don't. Those two lines don't intersect.

You don't believe in God, but we do. Those two lines don't intersect.

You don't believe in spirituality, but we do. Those two lines don't intersect.

So, obviously, you think what we say is foolishness and not using reason (within context of your world view). We use our reason and think it isn't foolishness and it is quite real as it reveals the power of God.

It's been that way for millenniums.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I thought it was pretty clear.

You think that the cross is a myth and we don't. Those two lines don't intersect.

You don't believe in God, but we do. Those two lines don't intersect.

You don't believe in spirituality, but we do. Those two lines don't intersect.

So, obviously, you think what we say is foolishness and not using reason (within context of your world view). We use our reason and think it isn't foolishness and it is quite real as it reveals the power of God.

It's been that way for millenniums.

No, reason does not work that way. Confirmation bias and other logical fallacies are not reason. Also, you got some of my beliefs wrong.

It irritates quite a few Christians that their beliefs are not rational. They try to deny this. That is not a good sign. You can see it when they try to claim that the sciences confirm God. They do no such thing. In fact they refute some Christian beliefs.

There is nothing wrong with admitting that some of one's beliefs are irrational and embracing them. The problems arise when Christians or those of other faiths try to force others to follow their beliefs. Then one must be willing to argue rationally.

 

[Kenny]

No, reason does not work that way. Confirmation bias and other logical fallacies are not reason. Also, you got some of my beliefs wrong.

It irritates quite a few Christians that their beliefs are not rational. They try to deny this. That is not a good sign. You can see it when they try to claim that the sciences confirm God. They do no such thing. In fact they refute some Christian beliefs.

There is nothing wrong with admitting that some of one's beliefs are irrational and embracing them. The problems arise when Christians or those of other faiths try to force others to follow their beliefs. Then one must be willing to argue rationally.

I don't see reasoning in above. I see personal opinions and then a confirmation that you think it is foolishness (as scriptures confirmed).

but we still love you!

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't see reasoning in above. I see personal opinions and then a confirmation that you think it is foolishness (as scriptures confirmed).

but we still love you!

It is observation based. We would have to go over all sorts of theistic arguments to show this. If you wanted specific examples that would be easy.

 

[Kenny]

It is observation based. We would have to go over all sorts of theistic arguments to show this. If you wanted specific examples that would be easy.

As long as we agree on interpretation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As long as we agree on interpretation.

We probably won't.

 

[Kenny]

We probably won't.

Back to my previous scripture - and previous "these lines don't intersect"

 

[loverofhumanity]

How do you do it, if you move? I am including all religions here but mostly Christian churches because there are more Christian churches than any other religion in America.

I watched the Hillsong special where people said they went there, visiting with a friend who led them to believe they were very liberal because they accepted everyone dressed in any way they want and accepted people who dressed in different ways.

But after they went for a while realized they were a conservative evangelical church with lots of rules after.

I know what church I am going to visit so it's not for me. But since I saw the special on Hillsong, I would like to know if anyone has an opinion on the best way of finding a church that works, that is good, and what are your requirements.

I think knowing who the Pastor is, some of the leadership, and knowing the beliefs is a good start. My sister made a comment on the nondenominational churches being good again, the goody guys.

I disagree. I want to know the tenants, doctrines, beliefs, and teachings of the church first. To me Nondenominational churches can mean anything, just saying you are Christian doesn't mean anything.

If I am happy with my church there is no reason to visit anyone's church anyways. But anyways, so what's your opinion?

That is something only you can decide because you know what feels right for you.

One word of caution though. This is the world of change so basing one’s beliefs on circumstances which shift and change may find you joyous one day but disappointed the next when a new pastor arrives or a change occurs.

I base my beliefs on certain principles which are unchanging so everywhere to me is home whether a Christian church, a Jewish synagogue or a Buddhist pagoda. And it doesn’t matter whether the people are perfect or not because that is another ever shifting unreliable element in choosing a church. One day great people, next day a pain.

So there is just myself and my wife in our community but we are happy because we are happy within. The more one relies on external sources the less stable will be one’s happiness because everything is constantly in a state of change.

So I wish you all the best.

 

[nPeace]

How do you do it, if you move?

This is a great question.
From my experience, and personal conversations with others, it's easy for those who really don't care much about beliefs or doctrines.
As long as it's "Christian"... Not JWs, LDSs, or perhaps SDAs, they are comfortable, because, according to what I was told, "You don't have to believe everything the pastor says. You go to worship God, and a) God is there... or b) his word is being preached.... or c) something else.

Many people don't take them seriously, since they don't show that worship is serious to them.

I am including all religions here but mostly Christian churches because there are more Christian churches than any other religion in America.

I watched the Hillsong special where people said they went there, visiting with a friend who led them to believe they were very liberal because they accepted everyone dressed in any way they want and accepted people who dressed in different ways.

But after they went for a while realized they were a conservative evangelical church with lots of rules after.

I know what church I am going to visit so it's not for me. But since I saw the special on Hillsong, I would like to know if anyone has an opinion on the best way of finding a church that works, that is good, and what are your requirements.

The best way of finding the Church that is good, is to get to know what constitutes a "good" church.
That is done by sincerely studying the Bible.
In other words, having a personal Bible Study Course.

I think knowing who the Pastor is, some of the leadership, and knowing the beliefs is a good start.

I think these are important... especially knowing the doctrines - what is taught, and knowing if these are what you agree with... more importantly, based on Bible teachings
After all, you would not want to get involved with something you know little about... only to find out later, that they hold firmly to things you have a problem with.

My sister made a comment on the nondenominational churches being good again, the goody guys.

Non-denominational "Christian" church?
I know of a handful, but perhaps you can share what's on your list.
I'd be interested in hearing.

I disagree. I want to know the tenants, doctrines, beliefs, and teachings of the church first. To me Nondenominational churches can mean anything, just saying you are Christian doesn't mean anything.

I second that.

If I am happy with my church there is no reason to visit anyone's church anyways. But anyways, so what's your opinion?

I agree... provided that 'happy' feeling isn't due to an emotional thing.

Spoiler

I know of of Christians who have no problem in this area, because no matter where they move, they fit right in, becase the Christian meetings they attend, are the same... regardless of the language. Even the program is same, so they know what material they will need to take with them, well ahead of time.
That's the only group I know of, where that works.

 

[Riders]

The pastor is no longer pastor... but the people are still great leaders and great people.

But, as I said, just go to different churches until you find one that you sense "this is home".

Since several of the churches are closed, many of the people are not there now. There have been a few complaints of sexual assault, one that led to an arrest. Many leaders have been reported to be sleeping around with folks.

Brian the original Pastor, and his wife wrote a book that is very questionable. I will fill you in if you want.

 

[Psalm23]

Since several of the churches are closed, many of the people are not there now. There have been a few complaints of sexual assault, one that led to an arrest. Many leaders have been reported to be sleeping around with folks.

Brian the original Pastor, and his wife wrote a book that is very questionable. I will fill you in if you want.

What is the book called? What do you find is questionable in it?

 

[Kenny]

Since several of the churches are closed, many of the people are not there now. There have been a few complaints of sexual assault, one that led to an arrest. Many leaders have been reported to be sleeping around with folks.

Brian the original Pastor, and his wife wrote a book that is very questionable. I will fill you in if you want.

Thanks, but not necessary... I don't like throwing the first stone in these matters. Everyone needs grace, the prostitute that wept at the feet of Jesus, those who left the stones willing to extinguish the life of a woman and the men that judged themselves for their lack of fairness.

He is no longer the pastor and the law will take care of the rest.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Since several of the churches are closed, many of the people are not there now. There have been a few complaints of sexual assault, one that led to an arrest. Many leaders have been reported to be sleeping around with folks.
Brian the original Pastor, and his wife wrote a book that is very questionable. I will fill you in if you want.

Remember before Jesus comes (Rev.22:20) 'religious waters' aka 'people' - Rev. 17:15,1 will be spiritually dried up.
So, it should Not surprise anyone because Jesus forewarned us at Matthew 7:21-23 that MANY would come in his name but prove false.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How do you do it, if you move? I am including all religions here but mostly Christian churches because there are more Christian churches than any other religion in America..............If I am happy with my church there is no reason to visit anyone's church anyways. But anyways, so what's your opinion?

To me, happy if Jesus is happy
So, take the current beliefs that are taught were one attends and see if they match up with what Jesus taught.
For example: the condition of the dead as Jesus taught - John 11:11-14 - that the dead are in a sleep-like state.
Jesus was well educated in the OT which teaches ' sleep ' in death - Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Just as there was No post-mortem penalty for Adam, No double jeopardy there is none for anyone else.
So, ' painful flames of fire after death' is a religious lie taught as being Scripture when really Not Scripture.
When KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that is what put pain after death.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed.
Bible truth is ' destruction ' for the wicked - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22; 2 Peter 3:9
So, even though there are many so-called Christian churches, as Jesus forewarned us that MANY would come in his name but prove false - Matthew 7:21-23
Remember: if the dead are still alive there would be No need for a resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
The living dead do Not need a resurrection but the sleeping dead need to be resurrected from death's deep sleep.

 

[samtonga43]

Please, you know that is not true. In our exchanges you have always been the one that eschewed reason. As you have hear in this thread. All you have are personal attacks when your poor reasoning is pointed out.

How ironic! SZ accuses someone else of poor reasoning!