False Rape Allegations

[moodys]

I understand .Im just chiming in for me as far as issues that men face I'm far less concerned if I have to put one with more priority of men being falslely accused of rape or men being raped it would be men being raped.(and boys)..Lets put it this way .I would not consider my son being falsley accused of rape a more serious issue for him to have to deal with as opposed to him being raped.Neither are good but if I had to make an awful decision for what he had to go through I would choose him to be falsley accused over being raped.

I guess I'm just saying I don't see this issue myself as being the most serious issue men face .

Thats all. I'll move on.

That's a false dichotomy. I'll pose the more appropriate question: Would you choose your son to be falsely accused of rape over not being falsely accused of rape? I do not think it is appropriate to trivialize this issue by comparing false accusations to actual rape.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

That's a false dichotomy. I'll pose the more appropriate question: Would you choose your son to be falsely accused of rape over not being falsely accused of rape? I do not think it is appropriate to trivialize this issue by comparing false accusations to actual rape.

I think this is a valid point. I originally approached the issue surviving both scenarios, and after reading my initial posts I believe this wasn't the thread to present it in. Focusing squarely on the problems men face from false rape accusations are what is important. There is already another thread specifically dealing with male survivors of rape.

 

[DallasApple]

Do you feel there is a way to reasonably posit a percentage for false accusations to crimes in general or to rape?

I don' think there will.Because as I stated before MOST accusations are DENIED.If almost 100% of the time the victim is accused of lying and of course the burden of proof is hers. And rape is very difficult to prove so the vast majority of times its never proved how would we ever know who was lying and who wasn't? Being that again the accused always says she is lying? The main reason a man will ever admit it is if the evidence to prove it has him backed in the corner and he is better off plea bargaining than trying to say hes not guilty.And in some cases Im sure rarely he feels remorse and will fess up.

 

[Curious George]

So to recap, suggestions to help so far:

Stay informed,
Remove the stigma of rape as a topic which is avoided,
More openly talk about sexuality,
Diminish **** shaming,
Remove the stigma of abortion,
Make sure abortions are accessible for not only rape victims or incestual relations.
And donate to causes that pursue these goals.

 

[DallasApple]

Would you choose your son to be falsely accused of rape over not being falsely accused of rape? I do not think it is appropriate to trivialize this issue by comparing false accusations to actual rape.

I'm not trivializing by making my opinion on the comparison.They were already being compared.I was simply stating my opinion of the comparison.I think after that the thread moved on from that.It was settled not to compare them anymore.I was fine with that and moved on .

 

[MysticSang'ha]

So to recap, suggestions to help so far:

Stay informed,
Remove the stigma of rape as a topic which is avoided,
More openly talk about sexuality,
Diminish **** shaming,
Remove the stigma of abortion,
Make sure abortions are accessible for not only rape victims or incestual relations.
And donate to causes that pursue these goals.

I have another. I think a vital - and unfortunately absent - part of sex education ought to be entirely focused on what is informed consent. What it looks like. What it isn't. Everything.

If there is line, everyone needs to be on the same page as to whether or not it has been crossed. We don't want somebody accusing somebody of rape if they themselves don't know what informed consent looks like.

 

[Alceste]

I think if I'm reading right the comparison was brought up because Op said he felt it maybe the the largest 1st world issue men have to deal with.I think Alceste asked why would this be a larger issue than men rape victims ? As the affects of rape are far more serious and traumatic than false accusations of rape. I happen to agree as well what is called post traumatic rape syndrome is well documented and it afflicts most rape victims man woman and child.Not only that if you accept the #'s of men being raped by women,and men being raped my men in the 1st world far more men are actually being raped then falsley accused of rape.

My conclusion given the level of trauma MOST rape survivors endure in every aspect of life and the length of time they may endure it and as many as it affects (# of men raped) this for me is a much much larger issue.

Here is the definition of rape trauma syndrome and this is happening to men AND boys .Its a complex post traumatic stress disorder that the rape victim suffers internally /physical symptoms and of course mental .

Rape trauma syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


To add.As far as false allegations go .Rape accusers who have been raped.IOW are not lying are in most cases accused of LYING about being raped .Which can also ruin her reputation especially if the guy is never charged /or goes to trial and is aquitted.She's been raped and now is accused of "ruining her rapist life" .In that way oddly real rape victims can identify (with that part ) of what its like for the falsley accused .she being falsley accused of lying .

Ah yes, I see where the confusion started. When I asked whether rape is a bigger issue, I meant the rape OF MEN being a bigger men's issue (to my mind) than malicious gossip. IOW, a much more important "men's issue" than malicious gossip, and I only brought it up in response to the idea that malicious gossip is the MOST important issue men have to deal with.

I didn't intend to make it a "who is the bigger victim" ******* contest, especially between male alleged rapists and female alleged victims. I was talking about the rape of men, since that is a men's issue and this is a men's issues forum.

Hope that clarifies things!

 

[DallasApple]

I have another. I think a vital - and unfortunately absent - part of sex education ought to be entirely focused on what is informed consent. What it looks like. What it isn't. Everything.

If there is line, everyone needs to be on the same page as to whether or not it has been crossed. We don't want somebody accusing somebody of rape if they themselves don't know what informed consent looks like.

Agreed.Including everyone understanding 1st for your own protection believe no means no.That way there is no "gray area" if the woman says no even though you believe her body language says otherwise.It will also lessen HER "confusion " when afterwards she may be thinking I said no and he did it "anyway" or why didn't he stop.

When it comes to consent there should be no "not necessarily what she means" involved.

 

[Curious George]

I have another. I think a vital - and unfortunately absent - part of sex education ought to be entirely focused on what is informed consent. What it looks like. What it isn't. Everything.

If there is line, everyone needs to be on the same page as to whether or not it has been crossed. We don't want somebody accusing somebody of rape if they themselves don't know what informed consent looks like.

Very true. I think sex ed, is very much part of talking about sex and sexuality more openly and honestly. But I think discussions on informed consent is an aspect of sex ed that might be less objectionable to some than sex ed in general.

 

[moodys]

I think this is a valid point. I originally approached the issue surviving both scenarios, and after reading my initial posts I believe this wasn't the thread to present it in. Focusing squarely on the problems men face from false rape accusations are what is important. There is already another thread specifically dealing with male survivors of rape.

If you are referring to post #21, I have just read it and I cannot be any more sympathetic to your plight. I do however disagree entirely with the conclusion you arrived at, that defamation (concerning whatever sexual misconduct, not just towards men clearly, in fact the bulk is towards women but you get the point) can not ruin a person's life.

As an aside, it's interesting but not surprising how Julian Assange was accused of rape in a bid to undermine public confidence and support for him (and indeed various embassies of the world) the moment the government sought his extradition. The public rightly didn't buy into this cheap stunt, particularly the Ecuadorians who promptly gave him refuge.

 

[DallasApple]

Ah yes, I see where the confusion started. When I asked whether rape is a bigger issue, I meant the rape OF MEN being a bigger men's issue (to my mind) than malicious gossip.

And that's how I was addressing it.That's why I used my son in the comparison.The fact that rape and the affects are very similar to men and women we can leave out to keep it only about men being raped as far as I'm concerned.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

If you are referring to post #21, I have just read it and I cannot be any more sympathetic to your plight. I do however disagree entirely with the conclusion you arrived at, that defamation (concerning whatever sexual misconduct, not just towards men clearly, in fact the bulk is towards women but you get the point) can not ruin a person's life.

I understand. And I withdraw pursuing the debate on the impact of defamation of character since this is not the place for it. But I get where you are coming from.

As an aside, it's interesting but not surprising how Julian Assange was accused of rape in a bid to undermine public confidence and support for him (and indeed various embassies of the world) the moment the government sought his extradition. The public rightly didn't buy into this cheap stunt, particularly the Ecuadorians who promptly gave him refuge.

That is a good point.

 

[Curious George]

I also forgot kilgore's suggestion that I would abstract to cautioning people of potentially putting themselves in situations where a party who the person does not trust can make allegations of a one says this while another says that and much is on the line.

 

[Alceste]

But a woman who has an abortion doesn't need to point at anyone specific to make a false claim of rape.

Also as far as **** shaming.They have consentual sex.He decides to brag about it .She gets the **** shaming.To save her integrity she lies and says I was a victim of rape.Puts a whole new meaning to kiss and tell.

What about race? I wonder how many white women will be more likely to false accuse a black man because of the still racist views on that?

Well, speaking from my own experience of women who lie, the main "reason" is that they're freaking lunatics. My friend's ex, for example, was a freaking lunatic. She was malicious, vindictive, jealous, and mentally and emotionally unstable. That was all apparent to me within two minutes of meeting her. Don't know what my friend saw in her.

I had another friend who habitually lied about all kinds of things. Again, I think she was mentally ill. It was attention-seeking behavior. She lied to get sympathy from people. Never about rape, to my knowledge, but about her sexual exploits, and a number of fake pregnancies and a couple abortions that never occurred.

It could very well be that - if you are an incredibly weak-minded person, mentally ill, developmentally delayed or unusually fearful - our culture of **** shaming might "tip you over the edge" into pretending that you've been raped, but really there's no excuse for that kind of behavior, or any other kind of malicious gossip IMO.

Likewise, I think there's no excuse for committing violence against others as a form of vigilante justice. Not even if you are reacting to malicious gossip.

It's about personal responsibility, IMO, and giving credit where credit is due. The malicious gossip is the fault of those who generate or participate in it. The violence is the fault of those who perpetrate the violence. You need a nice clear line between the culpability of either group because we are a species that ostensibly possesses free will.

 

[Alceste]

And that's how I was addressing it.That's why I used my son in the comparison.The fact that rape and the affects are very similar to men and women we can leave out to keep it only about men being raped as far as I'm concerned.

Exactly. Men being raped is best compared with women being raped. Malicious gossip toward men is best compared with malicious gossip toward women.

 

[DallasApple]

Malicious gossip toward men is best compared with malicious gossip toward women.

Agreed!

 

[Kerr]

Exactly. Men being raped is best compared with women being raped. Malicious gossip toward men is best compared with malicious gossip toward women.

And malicious gossip can have severe consequences. While the crime itself isnt comparable to rape, the consequences of both can be dire.

 

[Me Myself]

I certainly don't want to create a debate (and I apologize if that's what my posts in here have been suggesting). I'm hoping to start with what people can do on an individual level, but also how grassroots campaigns and policy changes can eliminate these problems on a societal level.

Oh sure. Well yeah it is a good focus

For your second question, I'm not sure I follow. Can you embellish?.

I am asking if you feel there is any way to accurately (or at least more or less acurately) come to know how many false accusations are made for any crime.

I think no... But I dont know.

I always thought he was the best. I know it didn't make things any easier for him, but to know there are still fans who don't take anger out on the accusers but still supported him (I hope) helped him through.

I am sure he was happy for the fans that expressed him support. Bing femous is a very mixed bag. On one side, things like this are hell because so many strangers think so strongly about what they think you are. On the other, so many people surely sent him letters saying "I know this is not true, I am with you"

He surely seelike a very sensible man, so it must haveeen extremely hard on him.

Really, people can be heaven or hell.

 

[Alceste]

And malicious gossip can have severe consequences. While the crime itself isnt comparable to rape, the consequences of both can be dire.

Certainly. Even deadly. As I say, in that "Interruptors" doc I watched on gang violence, it doesn't take much malicious gossip to potentially put people in the line of fire, especially in economically depressed neighbourhoods. And I have no doubt that bullying and malicious gossip is the number one cause of suicide and attempted suicide for teens of both genders.

 

[DallasApple]

Well, speaking from my own experience of women who lie, the main "reason" is that they're freaking lunatics.

Right malicious including or not revenge.

Its defamation of character and if you can prove it you can sue for it and win.

Example I saw a case where a woman who owned and operated a home day care center had ****** off the wrong mother.She made a completely made up false report to CPS about abuse of her child while in her care just to "get her back".

Of course she spread the lie around to all the other parents and whoever would listen.Some parents supported her didn't believe it others had the "better safe than sorry" thing going.In the meantime her license was suspended during the investigation.She under threat that her own children might be removed pending the outcome.She lost some friends they suddenly got busy all the time ..etc..

In the end they found the claims to be unfounded .But she had lost her business by that time and of course had been traumatized by all this emotionally so she sued the woman .She proved it was malicious slander /defamation and won a settlement all be it a pittance.This was in a lower court /small claims so there was a cap/max she could get.In a higher court she would have won a larger judgment.