False Rape Allegations

[MysticSang'ha]

For the record, I was once accused of inappropriately touching children when I was 19. I was fired from my job in teaching children, threatened by the business owner that she would make sure I will never be around children ever again, rumors spread, I was shunned for a few months, and then the accusations died when discovered there was no merit to it. I was able to work again in my field in spite of being reviled by a good portion of members of a community for a few months.

I was also raped.

The difference in social consequence between the two and the amount of suffering in comparison is distinct. I will suggest there is some suffering in reputation from the false accusation. It is nowhere near to the suffering and recovery as a result of being brutally raped and left by the side of the road to die.

I disagree therefore that a false rape accusation ruins a persons life, and I also disagree that a false rape accusation is just as harsh as actually being raped. They are not the same.

 

[Qhost]

For the record, I was once accused of inappropriately touching children when I was 19. I was fired from my job in teaching children, threatened by the business owner that she would make sure I will never be around children ever again, rumors spread, I was shunned for a few months, and then the accusations died when discovered there was no merit to it. I was able to work again in my field in spite of being reviled by a good portion of members of a community for a few months.

I was also raped.

The difference in social consequence between the two and the amount of suffering in comparison is distinct. I will suggest there is some suffering in reputation from the false accusation. It is nowhere near to the suffering and recovery as a result of being brutally raped and left by the side of the road to die.

I disagree therefore that a false rape accusation ruins a persons life, and I also disagree that a false rape accusation is just as harsh as actually being raped. They are not the same.

I agree with that account of rape being frankly awful... The only consequences which could surpass (on the other side) that is when men are murdered because of a false allegation. Of course, women are murdered during/after rape as well. As we all know, it isn't a score-board.

I would agree with your later disagreements if you had said 'I disagree that a false rape accusation ruins a persons life automatically' or 'I disagree that a false rape accusation is just as harsh as being raped automatically'. Of course, a false rape accusation can be a very simple and trivial thing to go through, but it can be life ruining where the accused suffers the same fear of going outside, the same psychological damage, distrust of people as someone being raped. And of course, not all rapes are brutal/left to die scenarios. Some people are easily damaged mentally, and a false allegations will have far more lasting damage than if it was to someone else.

I know a teenage girl who woke up to a man having sex with her, she suffered no psychological, emotional, mental, physical damage and she got over the event quickly.

To clarify. I would never say that false rape allegations are a more serious issue than rape events. I just take protest at the statement that a false allegation cannot be as damaging as a rape. (if having your son murdered because someone said he raped them isn't life-ruining, what is?)

 

[Alceste]

I agree with that account of rape being frankly awful... The only consequences which could surpass (on the other side) that is when men are murdered because of a false allegation. Of course, women are murdered during/after rape as well. As we all know, it isn't a score-board.

I would agree with your later disagreements if you had said 'I disagree that a false rape accusation ruins a persons life automatically' or 'I disagree that a false rape accusation is just as harsh as being raped automatically'. Of course, a false rape accusation can be a very simple and trivial thing to go through, but it can be life ruining where the accused suffers the same fear of going outside, the same psychological damage, distrust of people as someone being raped. And of course, not all rapes are brutal/left to die scenarios. Some people are easily damaged mentally, and a false allegations will have far more lasting damage than if it was to someone else.

I know a teenage girl who woke up to a man having sex with her, she suffered no psychological, emotional, mental, physical damage and she got over the event quickly.

To clarify. I would never say that false rape allegations are a more serious issue than rape events. I just take protest at the statement that a false allegation cannot be as damaging as a rape. (if having your son murdered because someone said he raped them isn't life-ruining, what is?)

I think that is a terrible comparison, personally. It makes far more sense to compare false rape allegations to **** shaming than to actually being raped. It's not violence, it's malicious gossip. Having been on the receiving end of quite a lot of malicious gossip in my life, and knowing from the accounts of half a dozen friends of mine what it is like to be raped (gang raped, sexually abused by a family member, raped by a boyfriend), they're not the same category of thing. Not at all.

I have a guy friend whose ex spread malicious gossip that he had been physically abusive and he lost most of his friends in Edmonton because of it. That was very unfair, of course, and a terrible thing for her to do, but he doesn't suffer from the depression, panic attacks, flashbacks, and prolonged psychotic episodes that my friends who have been raped experience. He's pretty much the same guy now as he was before.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I agree with that account of rape being frankly awful... The only consequences which could surpass (on the other side) that is when men are murdered because of a false allegation. Of course, women are murdered during/after rape as well. As we all know, it isn't a score-board.

I would agree with your later disagreements if you had said 'I disagree that a false rape accusation ruins a persons life automatically' or 'I disagree that a false rape accusation is just as harsh as being raped automatically'. Of course, a false rape accusation can be a very simple and trivial thing to go through, but it can be life ruining where the accused suffers the same fear of going outside, the same psychological damage, distrust of people as someone being raped. And of course, not all rapes are brutal/left to die scenarios. Some people are easily damaged mentally, and a false allegations will have far more lasting damage than if it was to someone else.

I know a teenage girl who woke up to a man having sex with her, she suffered no psychological, emotional, mental, physical damage and she got over the event quickly.

To clarify. I would never say that false rape allegations are a more serious issue than rape events. I just take protest at the statement that a false allegation cannot be as damaging as a rape. (if having your son murdered because someone said he raped them isn't life-ruining, what is?)

I dunno. I had been threatened before with the false allegation. Of course, I've also been threatened before for a lot of things. I don't think those kinds of things are without emotional or psychological consequence.

It's not the same as understanding environmental triggers, however. I got a thing about back country roads, people's hands around my neck, and certain smells that automatically get my heart racing and where I need begin to implement ABA to remind me that it's not happening again.

Are there studies done on people who have experienced false rape allegations to have PTSD? I know of none, but I know plenty done for survivors of rape, male and female.

 

[Qhost]

I think that is a terrible comparison, personally. It makes far more sense to compare false rape allegations to **** shaming than to actually being raped. It's not violence, it's malicious gossip. Having been on the receiving end of quite a lot of malicious gossip in my life, and knowing from the accounts of half a dozen friends of mine what it is like to be raped (gang raped, sexually abused by a family member, raped by a boyfriend), they're not the same category of thing. Not at all.

I have a guy friend whose ex spread malicious gossip that he had been physically abusive and he lost most of his friends in Edmonton because of it. That was very unfair, of course, and a terrible thing for her to do, but he doesn't suffer from the depression, panic attacks, flashbacks, and prolonged psychotic episodes that my friends who have been raped experience. He's pretty much the same guy now as he was before.

Barely addresses the point. Whether it by gossip or violence or drugs or coercion, a life ruined is a life ruined. Congratulations that your male friend has the strength to overcome his gossip. Sadly there are men out there, some I know personally who are not that strong.

I'm sure the majority of rapes are worse than the majority of false accusations, but this does not change the fact that it does ruin lives. Can you honestly say that men's lives are not ruined? What about the fathers son who was murdered?

You are treating this like a scoreboard. I've seen all the symptoms you mentioned (depression, panic attacks, flashbacks, and prolonged psychotic episodes) in the weaker people I know who have been accused.

A life ruined is a life ruined. There is no need to play games on how one life is ruined 'worse' because it was ruined via X rather than Y.

 

[Aquitaine]

Even though I have no personal experience with rape/false rape allegations, it seems rather obvious to me that false rape allegations are now way near as damaging to the victim as actually being raped. I'm not sure if trying to compare them is wise, Qhost. :no:

 

[Me Myself]

Different people will take different things with different intensities.

As it has been said, this is not and should not be a scoreboard.

I would guess that in MOST or the BAST MAJORITY of cases (I would assume more than ninety percent, but as a guess, it is just a play thing to asign numbers) rape will be way worst than a false accusation.

That said.

Both can be extremely pernicious and ruin a person's life. This will depend othe person and a number of factors.

A rape accusation can truly destroy a person socially and depending on the importance the person puts on the people he will lose given this accusation ( and surely the doubt on trust that many around m will tangibly show) the rape accusation will be harsher to his life.

Its a very nasty thing. The very reason it becomes so nasty is because of the nastiness of rape and the deep and string psychological damages it creates.

I do must say I share your suspicion on e 2% figure, cause as I ve said, I just dont see any reasonable way to measure how much allegations are "false".

I would at least assume most rape allegations to be true but even more so given theature of the crime, I dont feel we really can know.

 

[Me Myself]

Barely addresses the point. Whether it by gossip or violence or drugs or coercion, a life ruined is a life ruined. Congratulations that your male friend has the strength to overcome his gossip. Sadly there are men out there, some I know personally who are not that strong.

I'm sure the majority of rapes are worse than the majority of false accusations, but this does not change the fact that it does ruin lives. Can you honestly say that men's lives are not ruined? What about the fathers son who was murdered?

You are treating this like a scoreboard. I've seen all the symptoms you mentioned (depression, panic attacks, flashbacks, and prolonged psychotic episodes) in the weaker people I know who have been accused.

A life ruined is a life ruined. There is no need to play games on how one life is ruined 'worse' because it was ruined via X rather than Y.

I agree a terrible damage is a terrible damage and trying to see which one is bigger is besides the point as none of both terrible damages must be diminished.

 

[Qhost]

Different people will take different things with different intensities.

As it has been said, this is not and should not be a scoreboard.

I would guess that in MOST or the BAST MAJORITY of cases (I would assume more than ninety percent, but as a guess, it is just a play thing to asign numbers) rape will be way worst than a false accusation.

That said.

Both can be extremely pernicious and ruin a person's life. This will depend othe person and a number of factors.

A rape accusation can truly destroy a person socially and depending on the importance the person puts on the people he will lose given this accusation ( and surely the doubt on trust that many around m will tangibly show) the rape accusation will be harsher to his life.

Its a very nasty thing. The very reason it becomes so nasty is because of the nastiness of rape and the deep and string psychological damages it creates.

I do must say I share your suspicion on e 2% figure, cause as I ve said, I just dont see any reasonable way to measure how much allegations are "false".

I would at least assume most rape allegations to be true but even more so given theature of the crime, I dont feel we really can know.

Exactly. I am just saying that:

In SOME situations, a false rape allegation can be as damaging than rape (people die...). And if you take death out of it, then in SOME situations, false allegations can be as damaging as SOME rape situations.

To deny this is to deny reality. You can talk about bad comparisons all you want, but this statement remains true.

I AM NOT, making a universal claim here that one is worse than the other.... only that in SOME situations, they can be as bad as each other.

 

[Alceste]

Barely addresses the point. Whether it by gossip or violence or drugs or coercion, a life ruined is a life ruined. Congratulations that your male friend has the strength to overcome his gossip. Sadly there are men out there, some I know personally who are not that strong.

I'm sure the majority of rapes are worse than the majority of false accusations, but this does not change the fact that it does ruin lives. Can you honestly say that men's lives are not ruined? What about the fathers son who was murdered?

You are treating this like a scoreboard. I've seen all the symptoms you mentioned (depression, panic attacks, flashbacks, and prolonged psychotic episodes) in the weaker people I know who have been accused.

A life ruined is a life ruined. There is no need to play games on how one life is ruined 'worse' because it was ruined via X rather than Y.

Sorry, I thought you originally brought up the comparison of being raped with being falsely accused of rape yourself. That wasn't you?

 

[Qhost]

Sorry, I thought you originally brought up the comparison of being raped with being falsely accused of rape yourself. That wasn't you?

Nope. Can you point to where you think I said that?

 

[Revoltingest]

I promise you this was the first time I wrote this out.

I actually intend to continue to expand and update the OP as I personally explore and neaten up my views.

Many of my links to the news stories were gathered from COTWA since it is an excellent resource for information like this.

Once again, I reiterate, this is the first time I wrote that out, it took me a good 2 hours. If you or an admin looks at the edit history of the post you'll see I was constantly adding a sentence here, correcting a typo there and one or two links were added.

I suggest that in the spirit of a green forum, if anyone wants to make or second
challenges to the OP's originality, such disputes can be handled by staff using PMs.

 

[Me Myself]

I suggest that in the spirit of a green "Only" forum, if anyone wants to make or second
challenges to the OP's originality, such disputes can be handled buy staff using PMs.

I do think this is fair.

 

[Alceste]

Even though I have no personal experience with rape/false rape allegations, it seems rather obvious to me that false rape allegations are now way near as damaging to the victim as actually being raped. I'm not sure if trying to compare them is wise, Qhost. :no:

Neither do I. Just that one friend, and that wasn't specifically a rape allegation. Just malicious gossip in general. And I wouldn't say his life was ruined. Not at all. My friend who had been institutionalized multiple times, who can't keep a job any more than part time, who occasionally forgets to eat or bathe for weeks on end, until she's 100 pounds at 5'9'', who wakes up to a panic attack every day for months on end, who can't have a relationship because it's too much work... Her life is "ruined". IOW, no amount of therapy or medication will every allow her to to live anything resembling a normal life, with a family, a career, a house of her own, or even a pet. She's loopy. I expect she will commit suicide. Could be tomorrow, could be twenty years from now, but my only hope for her is that she does it during a manic episode instead of a depressive one so she at least leaves this world feeling good.

Granted, you need to abuse somebody a lot when they're very young to turn them into that kind of a mess. Just saying, I know what a "ruined life" looks like first hand, and it's very distinctly different from a "rough patch" or a "bad time".

 

[Qhost]

I know what a "ruined life" looks like first hand, and it's very distinctly different from a "rough patch" or a "bad time".

And I accept that. I accept that rape in general is far worse than an allegation. All I am saying is that SOMETIMES false rape allegations doesn't turn out to be just be a 'bad time', but it can ruin a mans life, and that man might even die because of it. You don't seem to be able to accept this information, even through I have given you the news stories.

You seem to consistently try and make it seem I compared rape to being as bad as false rape allegations. I never made such a universal, objective statement. I'm not a fan of you making strawmans of my arguments.

Once again on record: I am saying that SOMETIMES a false rape allegation CAN be as bad as a rape situation (death or life ruined). I do not say always, I do not say it as a universal law.

The whole point is that false allegations, like rape, have a chance to ruin someones life.

 

[Alceste]

Exactly. I am just saying that:

In SOME situations, a false rape allegation can be as damaging than rape (people die...). And if you take death out of it, then in SOME situations, false allegations can be as damaging as SOME rape situations.

To deny this is to deny reality. You can talk about bad comparisons all you want, but this statement remains true.

I AM NOT, making a universal claim here that one is worse than the other.... only that in SOME situations, they can be as bad as each other.

When a man kills another man because of a false rape allegation, about what percentage of the blame rests with the killer and what percentage with the accuser, in your opinion? Does her culpability decrease if she tries to dissuade the killer from violence?

As I see it, violent individuals will always find some excuse to be violent, so I'm not convinced malicious gossip of one specific type should be singled out for special attention.

In an excellent doc I saw - "the interrupters" - men and boys were being killed over anything from stealing money to looking at another man funny, and sometimes over nothing at all.

How do you see your efforts to suppress false rape allegations contributing to lowering violence against men overall?

 

[Alceste]

Nope. Can you point to where you think I said that?

Meh. Can't be bothered. I'll just take your word for it. If you want to not frame it in those terms for the rest of this discussion, I'm completely OK with that.

 

[Aquitaine]

Neither do I. Just that one friend, and that wasn't specifically a rape allegation. Just malicious gossip in general. And I wouldn't say his life was ruined. Not at all. My friend who had been institutionalized multiple times, who can't keep a job any more than part time, who occasionally forgets to eat or bathe for weeks on end, until she's 100 pounds at 5'9'', who wakes up to a panic attack every day for months on end, who can't have a relationship because it's too much work... Her life is "ruined". IOW, no amount of therapy or medication will every allow her to to live anything resembling a normal life, with a family, a career, a house of her own, or even a pet. She's loopy. I expect she will commit suicide. Could be tomorrow, could be twenty years from now, but my only hope for her is that she does it during a manic episode instead of a depressive one so she at least leaves this world feeling good.

Granted, you need to abuse somebody a lot when they're very young to turn them into that kind of a mess. Just saying, I know what a "ruined life" looks like first hand, and it's very distinctly different from a "rough patch" or a "bad time".

Jeez, poor thing. I don't even think I'd know how to help someone in those circumstances...

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Speaking for myself, I'm okay with the rebuttals made to my thoughts. For the purposes of the discussion, I'd like to offer a few thoughts that might alleviate the pain (since this is a mens forum) that men go through when facing a false rape allegation:

- Do you think the society that practices ****-shaming with women impacts a woman's decision to make a false rape accusation in order to protect her reputation?

- If an abortion is only granted to women who are victims of rape or incest, is it possible a woman who wants to terminate an unwanted pregnancy might feel as if her only option is to claim rape for a doctor to perform an abortion?

I come here with an assumption that organizations like MRA does not want to punish women, but to alleviate the problems of men. My offer is that if false rape accusations stem from purity-practices or illegal/stigmatized abortions, is it possible to help decrease the claims by removing stigmas like those above?

Finally, I'm fine if the above two offerings do not coincide with men's issues and if desired can be moved to the open forums for debate.

 

[DallasApple]

I think if I'm reading right the comparison was brought up because Op said he felt it maybe the the largest 1st world issue men have to deal with.I think Alceste asked why would this be a larger issue than men rape victims ? As the affects of rape are far more serious and traumatic than false accusations of rape. I happen to agree as well what is called post traumatic rape syndrome is well documented and it afflicts most rape victims man woman and child.Not only that if you accept the #'s of men being raped by women,and men being raped my men in the 1st world far more men are actually being raped then falsley accused of rape.

My conclusion given the level of trauma MOST rape survivors endure in every aspect of life and the length of time they may endure it and as many as it affects (# of men raped) this for me is a much much larger issue.

Here is the definition of rape trauma syndrome and this is happening to men AND boys .Its a complex post traumatic stress disorder that the rape victim suffers internally /physical symptoms and of course mental .

Rape trauma syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


To add.As far as false allegations go .Rape accusers who have been raped.IOW are not lying are in most cases accused of LYING about being raped .Which can also ruin her reputation especially if the guy is never charged /or goes to trial and is aquitted.She's been raped and now is accused of "ruining her rapist life" .In that way oddly real rape victims can identify (with that part ) of what its like for the falsley accused .she being falsley accused of lying .