False Rape Allegations

[Me Myself]

- Do you think the society that practices ****-shaming with women impacts a woman's decision to make a false rape accusation in order to protect her reputation?

I am not sure I understand this question, could you narrow it a bit or maybe give me some of your own views of it?

I a way I believe all aspects of a culture affect all aspects of a culture but I am not sure which would be the direct or indirect links to **** shaming and false accusations in this case.

Oh! Wait! You mean in a case where the woman is known and she is saying that she didnt agree so she accuses the man of rape? Well, I would be surprised if it didnt make for some false rape allegations, but I would assume this to be a minority.

I have a question to you, in your opinion is it reasonably possible to determine how much false accusations happen of a crime and more specifically for example in this kind of crime? (That is very hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt to begin with)

- If an abortion is only granted to women who are victims of rape or incest, is it possible a woman who wants to terminate an unwanted pregnancy might feel as if her only option is to claim rape for a doctor to perform an abortion?

I assume its possible, but to be honest, I would expect at least most women who put a false rape charge to be doing it out of malice, some kind of revenge , etc.

I find it difficult to reconsile it affecting too many cases because generally as humans we take black and white stances and it is hard to remain completely indiferent towards someone else. If the woman doesnt wish harm on e other person I find it hard she woul also be indiferent enough as to purposefully harm him so to get a free pass at this kind of things. But surely, I would think it would happen a few times more with such laws, and truly and blatantly selfish people unfortunately exist.

My offer is that if false rape accusations stem from purity-practices or illegal/stigmatized abortions, is it possible to help decrease the claims by removing stigmas like those above?.

It would be interesting to see which are the motivations of the women that have acknowledged putting forth false rape accusations.

The only case I can thi of that I know is a very popular one that involved one of the harshest false accusations around in the case with MJ. Now we know the motivation was money.

Then again, one problem with that approach to see motivations for me would be that that would tell us the motivations of those that were later willing to say they made a false allegation. This in itself my profile them differently than others that would never accept to such a thing,

I think **** shaming does affect all of us but the effects on men are very light in comparison to the effects on women. I do think women tend to be harsher on themselves and other women than men do to them in general, but that is purely anecdotal from my part. It is just what I have seen and my circle of socialities is... Limited.

The only direct effect that it has on us men (the indirect and most important being that I hate seeing my she friends limit and punish themselves with this) is merely that makes "getting some" harder

A personal indirect problem for me is that I hate hypocrecy already and "lets go see my iguana collection" is just dumb when I know we both just want to have sex! :cover: whats wrong with "wanna have sex?" :cover:

Society is weird

 

[Me Myself]

I think if I'm reading right the comparison was brought up because Op said he felt it maybe the the largest 1st world issue men have to deal with.I think Alceste asked why would this be a larger issue than men rape victims ? As the affects of rape are far more serious and traumatic than false accusations of rape. I happen to agree as well what is called post traumatic rape syndrome is well documented and it afflicts most rape victims man woman and child.Not only that if you accept the #'s of men being raped by women,and men being raped my men in the 1st world far more men are actually being raped then falsley accused of rape.

My conclusion given the level of trauma MOST rape survivors endure in every aspect of life and the length of time they may endure it and as many as it affects (# of men raped) this for me is a much much larger issue.

Here is the definition of rape trauma syndrome and this is happening to men AND boys .Its a complex post traumatic stress disorder that the rape victim suffers internally /physical symptoms and of course mental .

Rape trauma syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


To add.As far as false allegations go .Rape accusers who have been raped.IOW are not lying are in most cases accused of LYING about being raped .Which can also ruin her reputation especially if the guy is never charged /or goes to trial and is aquitted.She's been raped and now is accused of "ruining her rapist life" .In that way oddly real rape victims can identify (with that part ) of what its like for the falsley accused .she being falsley accused of lying .

Male on male rape is an interesting subject but I believe that would be for another thread if we were to focus on the trauma of it and all.

Somewhere I read in RF (never verified it) that most rapes in the US are done by men and with men as victims in penitentiaries. I truly think this is a subject in itself.

 

[Me Myself]

Speaking for myself, I'm okay with the rebuttals made to my thoughts. For the purposes of the discussion, I'd like to offer a few thoughts that might alleviate the pain (since this is a mens forum) that men go through when facing a false rape allegation:

- Do you think the society that practices ****-shaming with women impacts a woman's decision to make a false rape accusation in order to protect her reputation?

- If an abortion is only granted to women who are victims of rape or incest, is it possible a woman who wants to terminate an unwanted pregnancy might feel as if her only option is to claim rape for a doctor to perform an abortion?

I come here with an assumption that organizations like MRA does not want to punish women, but to alleviate the problems of men. My offer is that if false rape accusations stem from purity-practices or illegal/stigmatized abortions, is it possible to help decrease the claims by removing stigmas like those above?

Finally, I'm fine if the above two offerings do not coincide with men's issues and if desired can be moved to the open forums for debate.

I thought more about it.

I think a woman with a extremely "puritan" family could feel so ashamed of what happened to feel forced to tell her parents she was raped instead of the truth. I this case she would probably feel extremely guilty as the thing goes on, both for the having sex and for the accusation that would be mostly fueled by the parents as to see to justice the mawho allegedly attacked their "child"

In that circumstance I do think maybe ere could be a bigger percentage of false accusations. As I say, this is speculatory for me. I dont knnow how could we reach such a figure.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I find it's easy to avoid false rape allegations by only engaging in sexual activity with people with whom I've cultivated a mutually trusting relationship, by avoiding engaging in sexual relations with people who are emotionally unstable, by avoiding engaging in sexual relations which aren't clearly understood to be both voluntary and desired, and by not taking advantage of anothers emotionally-needy state for my own sexual gratification even though it technically isn't rape.

 

[DallasApple]

I understand .Im just chiming in for me as far as issues that men face I'm far less concerned if I have to put one with more priority of men being falslely accused of rape or men being raped it would be men being raped.(and boys)..Lets put it this way .I would not consider my son being falsley accused of rape a more serious issue for him to have to deal with as opposed to him being raped.Neither are good but if I had to make an awful decision for what he had to go through I would choose him to be falsley accused over being raped.

I guess I'm just saying I don't see this issue myself as being the most serious issue men face .

Thats all. I'll move on.

 

[Curious George]

Speaking for myself, I'm okay with the rebuttals made to my thoughts. For the purposes of the discussion, I'd like to offer a few thoughts that might alleviate the pain (since this is a mens forum) that men go through when facing a false rape allegation:

- Do you think the society that practices ****-shaming with women impacts a woman's decision to make a false rape accusation in order to protect her reputation?

- If an abortion is only granted to women who are victims of rape or incest, is it possible a woman who wants to terminate an unwanted pregnancy might feel as if her only option is to claim rape for a doctor to perform an abortion?

I come here with an assumption that organizations like MRA does not want to punish women, but to alleviate the problems of men. My offer is that if false rape accusations stem from purity-practices or illegal/stigmatized abortions, is it possible to help decrease the claims by removing stigmas like those above?

Finally, I'm fine if the above two offerings do not coincide with men's issues and if desired can be moved to the open forums for debate.

I absolutely think **** shaming and abortion laws contribute to false accusations. Of rape. Moreover, I think that social opinion of abortion laws factor in here as well.

 

[Me Myself]

I find it's easy to avoid false rape allegations by only engaging in sexual activity with people with whom I've cultivated a mutually trusting relationship, by avoiding engaging in sexual relations with people who are emotionally unstable, by avoiding engaging in sexual relations which aren't clearly understood to be both voluntary and desired, and by not taking advantage of anothers emotionally-needy state for my own sexual gratification even though it technically isn't rape.

I always have a problem with the "taking advantage" phrase used to talk about people having consensual sex.

I wouldnt want a woman to refrain from having sex with me just because I am sad if I am expressing sexual interest. If I am expressing sexual interest it is more than likely (to me, I dont plan to speak for anyone else) that the sex will do me good, specially if it is with someone I trust and have a good relationship with.

Not having sex with someone because you assume s/he is "not okay" in many times feels to me like babying such person and belitling his or her decisions. I am not saying this is always the case, and knowing the person would go a long way there. But unless you know the person will repent later (he is married and is loyal, she wants to wait till marriage because it is important to her, she is very vulnerable to **** shaming and you think this will trigger it, etc) I dont think it should be default to belittle their decisions.

Sure, you can make yours, but I dont know. To me, choosing that way would be to belittle the other part's capacity to choose what its best for her.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

I find it's easy to avoid false rape allegations by only engaging in sexual activity with people with whom I've cultivated a mutually trusting relationship, by avoiding engaging in sexual relations with people who are emotionally unstable, by avoiding engaging in sexual relations which aren't clearly understood to be both voluntary and desired, and by not taking advantage of anothers emotionally-needy state for my own sexual gratification even though it technically isn't rape.

Two things:
One need not have sex with a woman to be accused of raping her.
Can you find another DIR to troll?

 

[Me Myself]

Two things:
One need not have sex with a woman to be accused of raping her.

Very true.

 

[Me Myself]

Can you find another DIR to troll?

As revoltingest said earlier, I think it would be best if we left accusations for pms to staff or similar other endeavors that do not include public accusations in the dir.

I know you mean well, but I think it would be best if we dont use this post medium for that.

Hopefully you agree

 

[Kilgore Trout]

One need not have sex with a woman to be accused of raping her.

No, but it will certainly reduce the odds of it happening and of it being taken seriously.

Can you find another DIR to troll?

Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. I'm actually offering solid, real world advice on how to reduce your chances of a false rape alllegation happening to you.

 

[DallasApple]

But a woman who has an abortion doesn't need to point at anyone specific to make a false claim of rape.

Also as far as **** shaming.They have consentual sex.He decides to brag about it .She gets the **** shaming.To save her integrity she lies and says I was a victim of rape.Puts a whole new meaning to kiss and tell.

What about race? I wonder how many white women will be more likely to false accuse a black man because of the still racist views on that?

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. I'm actually offering solid, real world advice on how to reduce your chances of a false rape alllegation happening to you.

Simply disagreeing with me isn't trolling, but hopping thread to thread posting comments directly from feminist talking points does cross that line into trolling.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Simply disagreeing with me isn't trolling, but hopping thread to thread posting comments directly from feminist talking points does cross that line into trolling.

LOL - Yeah, that's me - mouthpiece for feminist talking points. Listen kid, I post nothing but pragamatic, common sense, honest views based on my own experience. If you have a cogent argument against anything I say, I'm happy to read it and let you know how and why you're wrong, but don't hide behind some bs little argument that I'm trolling just because I upset your equillibrium and you don't have a rational response.

 

[Me Myself]

Different amount of risk taking will be assumed by different men considering is issue, but it is important to notice that no one has said that e possibility to reduce some of the risks in any way changes the horribleness of a false rape accusation.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I thought more about it.

I think a woman with a extremely "puritan" family could feel so ashamed of what happened to feel forced to tell her parents she was raped instead of the truth. I this case she would probably feel extremely guilty as the thing goes on, both for the having sex and for the accusation that would be mostly fueled by the parents as to see to justice the mawho allegedly attacked their "child"

In that circumstance I do think maybe ere could be a bigger percentage of false accusations. As I say, this is speculatory for me. I dont knnow how could we reach such a figure.

I think it might be some place to start. Granted, I think you brought up other factors that might play into false rape accusations. If the target is high-profile, it could be money and greed that might motivate her.

I absolutely think **** shaming and abortion laws contribute to false accusations. Of rape. Moreover, I think that social opinion of abortion laws factor in here as well.

I think we might be in agreement about how distinctly social factors hurt males, and that ****-shaming and abortion laws do not affect women in a vacuum. I offered these as possible factors for how distinctly and independently hurt males, too, that have nothing to do with women.

But a woman who has an abortion doesn't need to point at anyone specific to make a false claim of rape.

Very good point. Perhaps that isn't a direct cause of suffering, but an indirect cause of suffering men face.

Also as far as **** shaming.They have consentual sex.He decides to brag about it .She gets the **** shaming.To save her integrity she lies and says I was a victim of rape.Puts a whole new meaning to kiss and tell.

Perhaps. And perhaps he never said a word about it, either, yet she still accuses him anyway.

What about race? I wonder how many white women will be more likely to false accuse a black man because of the still racist views on that?

Oh, I believe society still idealizes rape to be a black man assaulting a pure white woman from behind the bushes as she's getting in her car or walking home. I think society find that to be far more believable than actual rape statistics, which happen within relationships between people they know and trust.

 

[Me Myself]

I think it might be some place to start.

What do you mean place to start?

Do you feel there is a way to reasonably posit a percentage for false accusations to crimes in general or to rape?

If the target is high-profile, it could be money and greed that might motivate her..

Like the said example with mj

****, you just dont do that...

He was an extremely easy target too. So many weird things were said about him(many because of his own PR that propagate weird (but not bad) things about him) that that stuff made him be associated with pedophilia for the rest of his life.

The things people do for money

 

[DallasApple]

[QUOTEPerhaps. And perhaps he never said a word about it, either, yet she still accuses him anyway. ][/QUOTE]

Of course.But I was offering up one likely reason or way that **** shaming specifically may make lying about consentual sex seem like a way out of being a target of that shaming.Just one way.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

What do you mean place to start?

Do you feel there is a way to reasonably posit a percentage for false accusations to crimes in general or to rape?

I certainly don't want to create a debate (and I apologize if that's what my posts in here have been suggesting). I'm hoping to start with what people can do on an individual level, but also how grassroots campaigns and policy changes can eliminate these problems on a societal level.

For your second question, I'm not sure I follow. Can you embellish?

Like the said example with mj

****, you just dont do that...

He was an extremely easy target too. So many weird things were said about him(many because of his own PR that propagate weird (but not bad) things about him) that that stuff made him be associated with pedophilia for the rest of his life.

The things people do for money

I always thought he was the best. I know it didn't make things any easier for him, but to know there are still fans who don't take anger out on the accusers but still supported him (I hope) helped him through.

 

[Curious George]

But a woman who has an abortion doesn't need to point at anyone specific to make a false claim of rape

But upon hearing rape people could pressure her for answers. But I do see your point. And think that it is valid. I just am not sure that "she doesn't have to" will always equate to "she won't"