Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I agree. And I wonder why they allow it?
Is it just me or is this more common than it used to be?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
"Extended Adolescence" or "Emerging Adulthood" - a positive or negative trend?
- Thread starter Kathryn
- Start date
I agree. And I wonder why they allow it?
Is it just me or is this more common than it used to be?
I agree but I think if said child is actively looking for a job and doing their very best to get one then that is a different situation.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Must be hard to get dates...
No idea about either of them to be honest.
Alceste
Vagabond
I believe it is becoming more common for young adults to return home or stay at home longer because of the aforementioned economic situation, and because having to live with your parents exacerbates all kinds of neuroses, I expect the sort of apathetic hedonism of the young you observe is a consequence of this economic trend. If the best jobs going are temp or part time, poorly paid and highly stressful, with no job security and few benefits, and will never earn you enough to move out anyway, why NOT just spend your modest income going to Cancun?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Well, I'd say that's a pretty short sighted view. The parents of these kids grew up and came of age in the 1970s during one of the toughest recessions in history.
My husband came of age working in the oilfield industry. It has gone through many recessions and extremely far reaching layoffs over the past 30 years. He has never once been laid off though, and his career has blossomed into what most people can only dream of - though he only has an associate's degree. You know why that is? Because he didn't go to Cancun. He worked his *** off in good times and bad - because he understood the importance of hard work and personal integrity when it comes to a work ethic. He didn't have any sort of fancy benefits package, and he worked many 15 hour days in the rain and muck and wind, or searing Texas heat, or in Third World countries even in the middle of a civl war where oilfield workers were often randomly shot at by snipers, or abducted.
The ironic thing is, that today many of these 20 and 30 somethings look at him and resent his income - they consider him one of those wealthy people who need their wealth redistributed "because it's only fair." Sure - he's well off now - but that's only because he worked for twenty years in low paying, highly stressful jobs with few benefits.
In fact, with many affluent parents today, this is exactly how they got where they are.
Not very many kids and young adults today can even fathom actually "putting in their hard time" in order to build a career over the course of decades. They seem to expect to graduate and immediately move into an executive or professional position, and when that doesn't happen, they take a sabbatical, which they can afford when they move back home.
My husband came of age working in the oilfield industry. It has gone through many recessions and extremely far reaching layoffs over the past 30 years. He has never once been laid off though, and his career has blossomed into what most people can only dream of - though he only has an associate's degree. You know why that is? Because he didn't go to Cancun. He worked his *** off in good times and bad - because he understood the importance of hard work and personal integrity when it comes to a work ethic. He didn't have any sort of fancy benefits package, and he worked many 15 hour days in the rain and muck and wind, or searing Texas heat, or in Third World countries even in the middle of a civl war where oilfield workers were often randomly shot at by snipers, or abducted.
The ironic thing is, that today many of these 20 and 30 somethings look at him and resent his income - they consider him one of those wealthy people who need their wealth redistributed "because it's only fair." Sure - he's well off now - but that's only because he worked for twenty years in low paying, highly stressful jobs with few benefits.
In fact, with many affluent parents today, this is exactly how they got where they are.
Not very many kids and young adults today can even fathom actually "putting in their hard time" in order to build a career over the course of decades. They seem to expect to graduate and immediately move into an executive or professional position, and when that doesn't happen, they take a sabbatical, which they can afford when they move back home.
Last edited:
I don't know how it is in the USA, but I've noticed that here in Brazil a very sharp change has occurred in the consumer market. There is so much more to buy, and so much greater a difference in quality of life and even social relations according to how much one spends and on what, that it would surprise me if people still insisted on living on their own ASAP.
One of the defining factors of this change is IMO the technological advancement. Previous generations felt their parents to be outdated and out of touch with their own "yonger" realities. Often enough it was mainly overconfidence fueled by raging hormones. and just Not Knowing Better.
These days, however, things have changed a lot. The generation gap is probably the biggest ever, to the point of giving parents trouble understanding even the employment choices of their own children, to say nothing of how much of a living they can be expected to earn. There is also a subtler effect of actually having some degree of need for younger people at home for things such as consulting the Internet every now and them.
Some of the aspects of this general change I find most troublesome (mostly those related to the increasing gulf among social classes and the rotten spoiling of many teenagers), but many others are healthy or at least unavoidable. Marrying and having children, at the very least, are serious and consequential choices that I am happy to see taken with a bit more of caution.
I also happen to think that job qualification can and should be acquired for a longer time and at a far less intensive rate than expected of previous generations. Around the 1970s it became more common for both parents to be working full time jobs, and/or to divorce outright. Family structures are not as solid as they used to be, albeit for good reasons. There is more of a need for extended family and a bigger demand for quality time with parents. And for the reasons previously stated, even the parents themselves have a greater need for leisure time and learning with their own children.
One of the defining factors of this change is IMO the technological advancement. Previous generations felt their parents to be outdated and out of touch with their own "yonger" realities. Often enough it was mainly overconfidence fueled by raging hormones. and just Not Knowing Better.
These days, however, things have changed a lot. The generation gap is probably the biggest ever, to the point of giving parents trouble understanding even the employment choices of their own children, to say nothing of how much of a living they can be expected to earn. There is also a subtler effect of actually having some degree of need for younger people at home for things such as consulting the Internet every now and them.
Some of the aspects of this general change I find most troublesome (mostly those related to the increasing gulf among social classes and the rotten spoiling of many teenagers), but many others are healthy or at least unavoidable. Marrying and having children, at the very least, are serious and consequential choices that I am happy to see taken with a bit more of caution.
I also happen to think that job qualification can and should be acquired for a longer time and at a far less intensive rate than expected of previous generations. Around the 1970s it became more common for both parents to be working full time jobs, and/or to divorce outright. Family structures are not as solid as they used to be, albeit for good reasons. There is more of a need for extended family and a bigger demand for quality time with parents. And for the reasons previously stated, even the parents themselves have a greater need for leisure time and learning with their own children.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
We're seeing the results of the first generation of parents who were more interested in being friends with their kids, than preparing them for the real world.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Im not talking about someone like you..You should be the exception though due to the circumstances beyond your control..As well as you are still being productive and accomplishing something important by getting your education.
Im not talking about an adult child thats disabled.
My son is almost 21...graduated high school In May of 2008.He had saved up (on his own) over 4,000 working part time during high school(the fact he did that misled me to beleive he was going to be responsible in at least that manner)..O.K so he graduates..decides he wants to "take a break" from school...proceeds to keep working about 30 hours a week..SPENT not only every penny of his savings but every penny he was earning at his job to the tune of about 1,200 a month till he was litteraly overdrafting..in about 1 year(so I figured he spent about 15,000 in one year for NOTHING but fun)..Finally about 1 and 1/2 years later ..he starts going to community college almost full time(this is last fall/winter)..gets 1 semester done..starts second semester(this past spring) and guess what gets expelled for showing up to class stoned..WASTING the money we paid for his tuition and books..not to mention we even paid for his gas to get to school and back and he drove MY car(to school and work) so I sacrificed my liesure to have a car to drive whenever I wanted..In fact he has been drivign my car this whole time..Its old..but still he has put about 35,000 miles on it in the last 2 and 1/2 years.I have put about 3,000 miles on it in that same time frame.So for all practical purposes we gave him a car.
He is allowed back in for fall..But in the meantime(for the past 6 months)..he works about 25 hours a week making 7.50 an hour..and spends all his money.He has probably spent about 25,000 in the past 2 and 1/2 years..Going out to eat (and PAYING for his friends too)...gas to drive around..buying pot..etc..
Not to mention the upkeep on the car..We finally insisted he pay for part of the new tires it needed..and part of a $600 break job..
Im telling you NONE of this would hurt so bad and quite frankly feel like blatant usery..If he had used that time to at least get his associates degree and be at this point working on his bachelors.And maybe even took on the responsibilty for paying for something for his support even the car upkeep.
It actually makes me sad..that for whatever reason he feels "content" to work in low end jobs(part time)..and just "float around " here living bascially like a retired person.
ESPECIALLY because I know it IS going to be harder for him even with an education to get a decent job with benefits and be able to afford his own property and be completely independent in our world today.
And by that I mean not having to even depend on having to have a roomate to split the bills or a wife who works and they pool the income and share the financial burdens.
I mean even this past 6 months..Waiting to be let back in school..Why was his butt not working full time and saving every penny even to be prepared for when my car EVENTUALLY blows up that he could buy his own?Thats another thing I resent.When my car blows up then what is he going to do?He is dead BROKE.I started warning him a year ago..that when that thing blows..Hes on foot..we are NOT going to let him drive another one of our cars to death.
I guess what Im sying is why is he not preparing in any meaningful way for tomororw..next week..next month..5 years from now?
I can see it like a crystal ball that how fast the last 2 years went by...If we dont litterally just put him out on the street basically homeless..there is no reason to believe that he will not still be sitting here living here like its a free apartment..working at Waffle house to earn enough money to smoke pot 5 years from now.
So if you think Im being mean or heartless or not very charitable and giving?Thats all this has been..Me and my husband giving and tolerating ..and him taking and takign and taking ..and doing NOTHING productive with it on top of that.Oh Im sorry he did get ones semesters credit of school...
VENT over! LOL!!
Love
Dallas
I think some of the problem may be that people are not sure what they want to do after school so they just go to university because it is expected of them by their parents and friends. They do a degree that they are not that interested in and that has rubbish job prospects at the end combined with no idea of what sort of career they want at the end of their degree then through in a struggling job market to make it all even worse.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Yeah well Im not going to spend 20 years (in this sons case) of raising him..and I suppose the next what 20 or 30 (I guess what till I die)? being PUNISHED for being his "friend"..
I was the "softer one" by admission..but my husband was here too.He had a "no staying home from school rule"..I mean they had to really be sick.Many years they had perfect school attendence records.Litterally did not miss a day.
I NEVER defended them if they did something wrong..I wasnt one of those moms that tried to blame other people when they did something wrong..I did however (I dont knwo if this is what you mean by friend)..would focus on more of the positive first ..like on a report card..Like wow look at that a 95 in English an 88 in history..etc...My husband would be like YOUR FAILING MATH!!!!!!!!Im sick of you doing this..Your not trying hard enough..there is no excuse!!!!!Your not going anywhere this weekend!!!!!!
I was more like..that is not your strong point..I'll get you into tutoring.
My kids got a little bit of both I think...
I do admit however..I should have given them more "chores'..Like routine chores.
I dont know who knows..But as usual its blame the parents..
Oh well..I guess I'll just blow my head off....
Love
Dallas
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Definitely. Taking blind and hasty leaps rarely ends well. Marriage and children are huge, huge steps. More often than not we see marriages ending in disaster and children being raised improperly in really crappy environments.
Best bet; avoid both altogether.
Last edited:
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
I guess the bottom line is WHO CARES WHAT YOU WANT LOL!!!
Why should the parents have to support an adult till they are 25 + while they "decide what they want for a career"..Where does it end that someone should be "provided" that luxury?And by luxury I mean everything you need to survive and beyond?
What do you say to the fact the PARENTS are in jobs and careers they are NOT inerested in either?To support your hiny butt?
I know its hard to "decide" what you want "to be when you grow up"..some people may in fact never quite decide..or decide and then change their mind all their life..
In the mean time you have to "pick one" and get it done while you are still "deciding'..
Im not trying to be cruel and Im not talking about being selfish and just wanting to get rid of the kids..I WANT for my children to have their own LIVES seperate from me at some point.
Maybe its evolution or something but its a "stage" a transformation for the parents and the chldren..Its not NORMAL to me..to just 'chill" with the parents indefinately.
If my son decided (or asked) if he could just live here for the rest of his life..In his room..and have a career and help pay the bills and provide himself his neccessities such as car and such..I could deal with that better than this "limbo" ****.While he is eating our shrimp!Floating around acting like nothing is happening.
Love
Dallas
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Personally, I've never understood people who don't want to get out on their own and make their own lives as soon as they can. I left at 18 completely broke. I stayed with my brother for a month in DC, got a job, and was renting a place with a roomate once I got my first paycheck. It's not rocket science.
Then again, I had been itching to get out on my own since I was 15. If I was fine living like a child into my 20's, and my parents could afford to keep me, I guess I may have ended up turning into one of these aimless layabouts.
Then again, I had been itching to get out on my own since I was 15. If I was fine living like a child into my 20's, and my parents could afford to keep me, I guess I may have ended up turning into one of these aimless layabouts.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
I will say I completely agree with this..That is not the "solution".Getting married adn having children should not be on the list for a 19 20 21 22 year old as one of their "career choices" to independence from the parents.
For the ones that is truly thier dream and what they know they want in life and are prepared for the responsibilty and have realistic expecations then go for it..But those are the exceptionally mature and I beleive rare birds at that age..
That is the one that should be "put off" in my opinion indefinately.Not a "career choice" for a young adult to go flying by the seat of thier pants in a pipe dream of fairy tales and happily ever afters..
I would be horrified if my son (the 21 year old)walked up and said he met a nice girl and they were going to get married.
Love
Dallas
Last edited:
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Times have changed. When I graduated high school, there would have been absolutely no way I could have moved out on my own and have even a remote chance of making it. If I was lucky, got alot of long shifts, and picked up an extra shift or two, I might make alittle over $600 a month. That small of an income just isn't suitable to sustain any lifestyle. With cheap rent around here being about $300 - $350 a month for a dump run by a slum lord, plus utilities, gas, car payment/insurance, it just wasn't enough to even dream about moving out. My next job, in which I made about $850 a month, I did move out, and I had two room mates. Then the hours at that job weren't as plentiful due to reduced business, so I got a new job, and then got laid off, and had to move back home because I didn't have any income. But I did move out again almost three years ago and I'm still going. But the rule of thumb today is "everyone ends up back with their parents at least once." My sister (14 years older) has been back twice, once because she just moved back here and didn't have a place to stay, and the other time because she hit a hard spot in her relationship. My brother (10 years older) has been back several times, for many different reasons. People hit hard spots, jobs don't pay enough, and the government does expect parents to make a contribution towards their kids education. Mine are expected to front 1300 of it per year, but they don't. It just means I get less for a grant and have to take out loans.
As for marriage and kids, it's great that people wait until after college to have kids. College can be hard as it is, but when you add kids to the mix it can get very difficult to juggle a demanding work load, full time work, and kids. As for marriage, if people want to get married early that's ok, and it's ok if they want to wait. But kids should definitely wait. Chances are pretty good that they parents won't be able to support the child on jobs that don't require a degree, so waiting gives them the benefit of having a better paying job and more money to support their child, and it makes school easier.
As for a teacher's income, that is another issue. They should be driving Lamborghinis, Porsches, Corvettes, and other super luxury import cars.
As for marriage and kids, it's great that people wait until after college to have kids. College can be hard as it is, but when you add kids to the mix it can get very difficult to juggle a demanding work load, full time work, and kids. As for marriage, if people want to get married early that's ok, and it's ok if they want to wait. But kids should definitely wait. Chances are pretty good that they parents won't be able to support the child on jobs that don't require a degree, so waiting gives them the benefit of having a better paying job and more money to support their child, and it makes school easier.
As for a teacher's income, that is another issue. They should be driving Lamborghinis, Porsches, Corvettes, and other super luxury import cars.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
I left at 20 NOT broke..I "decided" not to go to school so I worked and saved money instead..Because my mother and father gave me those choices.I had saved about 12,000 and this was in the 80's..
Of course when I left it was because I got married..But still we had bought a house about 6 months previous..and we were already splitting the bills..
I love my husband and children but the gettting married part I would have not done if I could do a do over..At least not that soon.In fact my instinct was tellign me that but I was "pressured" into it..
Thats why Im "pro wait" on that today..Unless you are absolutley sure.
Love
Dallas
Alceste
Vagabond
Maybe you and your husband should to to Cancun.
Leave him to sort out the bills and groceries and whatnot.
Alceste
Vagabond
Sure, I moved out at 17, broke. Didn't even live with family. Just got a job in the Rockies at a hotel that had staff accommodation. However, we can't evaluate a growing sociological phenomenon based on our own personal anecdotes. Not everybody is wired the way we are. My high-tailing it out of town as soon as possible was my own way of reacting to the same cultural phenomenon that my older brother reacted to by staying home longer. There were, at the same time, an overwhelming number of career choices (most of which were pretty unappealing) and a very small chance of getting a secure job in any of them, even after splashing out for a degree. My reaction was "Ah, screw it, this place sucks. I'm going to Europe as soon as I can save up the cash". My brother's reaction was "Hmmm... I need some time to think over my options".
Erebus
Well-Known Member
Pretty much the same here, I couldn't wait to leave home and since it's very difficult for people my age to get a place of their own where I live, University and student accomodation was the way forward. I can't get my head around the people I recognise from High School who still act as though they're 14, sponging off their parents and drinking in the park. It's no way to live in my eyes.