muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
Is there no need for a maintainer, either?..If it is, there is no need for a creator..
Do you believe in perpetual motion?
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Is there no need for a maintainer, either?..If it is, there is no need for a creator..
Isn't it amazing how believers within a religion don't see any confusion or contradictions.
A large chunk of Christians believe in the trinity, the father, son and holy spirit. Is that God alive or dead? Or... not even real?To you, not me and a actually a majority of humanity. God is not dead, even if a few try to make that a possibility.
All the best with life.
Regards Tony
Yes, I went throught it. I gave in to my born-again Christian friends and did the "sinners" prayer, and it felt great and so real. They had an explanation for every apparent contradiction. I kept sayiing, "Yes, that makes sense." But at some point, it didn't. Then none of it made sense.Yes, amazing, but baffling as well. I'm convinced it's brainwashing.
I still think the beliefs of most all religions are wrong and that very possibly were made up by people... not "revealed" by a manifestation. I use the Mormons as a great example of this. Golden plates? The angel Moroni? To me, it's all made up. But... people believe it and take it to heart and apply some of the things taught in the religion and become better people and do a lot of good. So, I think religious beliefs don't have to be true, but they have to be believed to be true to work.That's not what my experience is.
What I see is that the religions of the world agree is a truth not because the religions of the world are wrong, it's because they're right. In my area virtually all the Baha'i activities are done by people who are members of other religions. It's a non-issue. The fact that I'm an enrolled Baha'i and many are not means nothing to the activities, in fact I envy their talents and effectiveness in what they're able to bring about.
Of course I may be missing something, and I'm open for discussion.
I've already asked about Adam and the other Bible characters that the Baha'is claim are manifestations of God, but what about Muhammad? How do Baha'is explain his military exploits?
The military career of Muhammad (c. 570 – 8 June 632), the Islamic prophet, encompasses several expeditions and battles throughout the Hejaz region in the western Arabian Peninsula which took place in the final ten years of his life, from 622 to 632. His primary campaign was against his own tribe in Mecca, the Quraysh. Muhammad proclaimed prophethood around 610 and later migrated to Medina after being persecuted by the Quraysh in 622. After several battles against the Quraysh, Muhammad conquered Mecca in 629, ending his campaign against the tribe.
Alongside his campaign against the Quraysh, Muhammad led campaigns against several other tribes of Arabia, most notably the three Arabian Jewish tribes of Medina and the Jewish fortress at Khaybar. He expelled the Banu Qaynuqa tribe for violating the Constitution of Medina in 624, followed by the Banu Nadir who were expelled in May 625 after being accused of plotting to assassinate him. Finally, in 628, he besieged and invaded the Jewish fortress of Khaybar, which hosted more than 10,000 Jews, which Muslim sources say was retaliation for planning to ally themselves with the local Arab pagan tribes.
In the final years of his life, Muhammad sent several armies against the Byzantine Empire and the Ghassanids in northern Arabia and the Levant, before conquering Mecca in 630 and leading a campaign against some Arab pagan tribes close to Mecca, most notably in Ta'if. The last army led by Muhammad before his death was in the Battle of Tabuk in October 630. By his death in 632, Muhammad had managed to unite most of the Arabian Peninsula, laying the foundation for the subsequent Islamic expansion under the caliphates and defining Islamic military jurisprudence.
Yes, I went throught it. I gave in to my born-again Christian friends and did the "sinners" prayer, and it felt great and so real. They had an explanation for every apparent contradiction. I kept sayiing, "Yes, that makes sense." But at some point, it didn't. Then none of it made sense.
Thay aren't true? They're true, but they were justified because it was a righteous cause? What exactly do Baha'is believe about this? Because this is pretty good evidence that he wasn't so pure and wasn't a manifestation. Which then is evidence against the Baha'i Faith being true also.
The proposition that a transcendent being standing outside time and space exists is inherently not disprovable.
The proposition that there is individual self-consciousness is ALSO inherently not disprovable.
So, does Baha'u'llah say Muhammad was justified in taking part in military actions? Which would be similar to the many people in the Bible that were warriors... like Joshua and King David. But is it right for a person that is supposed to be a manifestation of God? If yes, and I don't expect the answer to be anything but a yes, just a short answer will do or a reference to where Baha'u'llah speaks of it. It doesn't have to be a detailed, deep investigation.It is nigh on impossible determining these questions now CG. The truth of those conflicts have been tainted in time with both the enemy and misguided believers telling them to suit their agendas.
Baha'u'llah has covered this topic in the Kitab-i-iqan and tells of the Woes faced by Muhammad.
Regards Tony
It is a big topic.
So, does Baha'u'llah say Muhammad was justified in taking part in military actions? Which would be similar to the many people in the Bible that were warriors... like Joshua and King David. But is it right for a person that is supposed to be a manifestation of God? If yes, and I don't expect the answer to be anything but a yes, just a short answer will do or a reference to where Baha'u'llah speaks of it. It doesn't have to be a detailed, deep investigation.
OK, i understand that you're rethinking what you said--I still think the beliefs of most all religions are wrong and that very possibly were made up by people... not "revealed" by a manifestation. I use the Mormons as a great example of this. Golden plates? The angel Moroni? To me, it's all made up. But... people believe it and take it to heart and apply some of the things taught in the religion and become better people and do a lot of good. So, I think religious beliefs don't have to be true, but they have to be believed to be true to work.
--and that this somehow came across as not what you meant.... If Baha'u'llah is the manifestation for today and has the newest message from God, then most believers in the world today have chosen to believe in something outdated and wrong...
I usually ask Baha'is to name one religion today, other than theirs, that has the correct beliefs and practices. Don't all of them have something wrong? A large percentage of Christianity believes in the trinity and probably most Hindus and Buddhists believe in rebirth/reincarnation. And even Baha'is have the Umayyads and Abbasids and the beast and the dragon in Revelation, so is there even one Islamic sect that Baha'is support as having, teaching and practicing the truth? But I would think not, because they reject Baha'u'llah, so even the best of them falls short.Interesting what u said about the Mormons, my take is very much like yours, but they're only about one or two tenths of a percent of the world's population. There are many very good people who are Mormons and I'd be reluctant to disparage their belief system as hard as it is for me to hear about it w/o passing out. That said, lets not confuse them w/ the overwhelming majority of the human race that subscribes to one of the various religious belief systems.
It's hard to awake from religious indoctrination. Especially if someone has been exposed to it from childhood (like me).I'm a survivor also. But luckily I had several spiritual experiences by the time my parents sent me to "bible study" and lots more experiences by the time they sent me to (YIKES) 3 insufferable years in a Catholic high school, so none of it took hold, as I knew it to be all hogwash because none of it had to do with any true spiritual matters.
It's always possible to find something wrong every where we look and something we don't like in anyone we meet. Obsessing w/ what we don't like is not healthy. I go for what I like & I end up in likeable things. Homing in on bad things leads to misery.I usually ask Baha'is to name one religion today, other than theirs, that has the correct beliefs and practices. Don't all of them have something wrong? A large percentage of Christianity believes in the trinity and probably most Hindus and Buddhists believe in rebirth/reincarnation. And even Baha'is have the Umayyads and Abbasids and the beast and the dragon in Revelation, so is there even one Islamic sect that Baha'is support as having, teaching and practicing the truth? But I would think not, because they reject Baha'u'llah, so even the best of them falls short.
A "maintainer" would also be a perpetual motion, that doesn't fix that issue.Is there no need for a maintainer, either?
Do you believe in perpetual motion?
..and where do the "natural" laws originate, and what maintains them?There are many self assembling phenomenon in nature and our universe is governed by natural laws and probabilities..
But I'm talking about religions.It's always possible to find something wrong every where we look and something we don't like in anyone we meet. Obsessing w/ what we don't like is not healthy. I go for what I like & I end up in likeable things. Homing in on bad things leads to misery.
Your choice.
Do you and other Baha'is "like" that most Christians believe that Jesus is God? Do Baha'is "like" that many Hindus believe in reincarnation and many Gods?I usually ask Baha'is to name one religion today, other than theirs, that has the correct beliefs and practices. Don't all of them have something wrong? A large percentage of Christianity believes in the trinity and probably most Hindus and Buddhists believe in rebirth/reincarnation. And even Baha'is have the Umayyads and Abbasids and the beast and the dragon in Revelation, so is there even one Islamic sect that Baha'is support as having, teaching and practicing the truth? But I would think not, because they reject Baha'u'llah, so even the best of them falls short.
Do you and other Baha'is "like" that most Christians believe that Jesus is God? Do Baha'is "like" that many Hindus believe in reincarnation and many Gods?