1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Examining the evidence there is of God

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by TransmutingSoul, Jan 12, 2023.

  1. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    19,371
    Ratings:
    +9,141
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    This OP is for All people of all Faiths that believe in God.

    What evidence do you have of God?

    What logic and reasons have you used in determining the proofs and truths you subsequently embraced from the examination of that evidence?

    The purpose of this OP needs to be embraced if you are to participate. This OP is about the presentation of the analytical use of logic and reason in faith based proofs.

    If one wants to debate any stated logic and reason in this OP, then please do it in a respectful manner.

    I will introduce this OP with what I see is the first line of evidence that there is of God and that is a Prophet. These persons who are known as a Prophet, Messenger or Manifestations are known in that manner as they make a claim they have a Message from God. By doing so, one can then logically conclude that as a result they are basically offering that they are proof of God and thus they are open to examination and proof of such a claim.

    So how can I determine that what they offer is from God? This is where logic and reason needs to be employed. As each person is different, the logic and reasoning will also be different.

    I will expand further on this line of evidence during the OP.

    images (6).jpeg

    Regards Tony
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    64,789
    Ratings:
    +43,919
    Religion:
    Atheist
    And what if all claims of "evidence" fail that analysis? If there is actual evidence for a god I would like to see it. So far I have only seen abuses of reason at best.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Winner Winner x 3
  3. Moon

    Moon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,791
    Ratings:
    +1,353
    Existence. Nuff said.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. sun rise

    sun rise Śvāna Dharma
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    75,858
    Ratings:
    +39,792
    Religion:
    Love/Omnism
    To me, you're asking a tricky question that starts with someone's view of God. Is God fundamentally unchanging? Is the message basically the same at the root with the difference being in language, emphasis, cultural context and so forth?
     
  5. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    22,146
    Ratings:
    +17,248
    Religion:
    Druidry
    I started writing out something more in the style of formal logic, and got bored. So sorry about that. It has its place, but honestly? It makes it more complicated than it is. I'm just going to repost this:

     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    64,789
    Ratings:
    +43,919
    Religion:
    Atheist
    I will at times argue against specific "gods". Quite often a poster's claims about their version of God paints a being that is immoral or incompetent. To me if a God exists it cannot be that way. But what piques my curiosity are claims of "evidence for God". Now that I would like to see, but al I get usually are bad arguments.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Ella S.

    Ella S. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2021
    Messages:
    1,479
    Ratings:
    +1,847
    Through my brilliant genius, I have derived a general absolute proof of the existence of God that will destroy any atheist who so much as tries to come up with a counter-argument.

    I've noticed the common trends in the Teleological Argument, the Moral Argument, the Cosmological Argument, the Transcendental Argument, the Argument from Fine-Tuning, the Argument from Beauty, and so on. I've used these similarities to construct the undefeatable "General Proof of God" sure to convince any fence-sitting agnostics:

    Premise 1: There are things.
    Premise 2: Things require a thinger.
    Conclusion: Therefore, God.

    Checkmate, naytheists.
     
    • Funny Funny x 13
  8. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    25,687
    Ratings:
    +28,031
    I thing, therefore I am.
     
    • Funny Funny x 9
  9. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    19,371
    Ratings:
    +9,141
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I see that is great evidence!

    Yet what was the logic and reason you used with that much evidence?

    Regards Tony
     
  10. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    19,371
    Ratings:
    +9,141
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Well we must start using logic and reason to start with. If God is the cause of creation, then all logic and reason can only lead us back to the source.

    That would also logically mean that science will also find that creation traces back to a singularity.

    Regards Tony
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    64,789
    Ratings:
    +43,919
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Sorry, but you are not using logic properly either. You need to substantiate that claim, you cannot merely state it.

    "If God is the cause of creation, then all logic and reason can only tell us the he is a doody head". Did I make a proper argument there? If not then neither did you.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    4,968
    Ratings:
    +3,333
    Religion:
    None
    I'm not a believer but can I point out the element that is always missing from this kind of thing? To start with, you need a clear and internally consistent definition of the god you're looking to provide evidence for.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 2
  13. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    19,371
    Ratings:
    +9,141
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Yes, interesting question. Indeed I may very well be using logic and reason already based in some predetermined relevance.

    I have found my answer to that question and yes God is fundamentally unchanging and that is found in each Message. It appears God has set creation up as cyclic.

    Maybe the cyclic spiritual aspect can be found in the way creation operates?

    Logically if this advice from writings, that offer this is from God, "This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures....", then creation will also repeat in cycles.

    We will see people accepting and refusing the causes of cyclic faith, but readily submit to the cycles in our creation. Examples being the seasonal cycle and the rotations of the planets, the rising and setting of the sun in each of the zodiacs.

    Regards Tony
     
  14. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    31,203
    Ratings:
    +17,611
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    I'm confused. May non believers post here? If not, I doubt there will be much debate. Believers will just be posting their evidence with no serious challenges. :shrug:
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Useful Useful x 2
  15. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    19,371
    Ratings:
    +9,141
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    No, it was not meant to be respectful and shows an unwillingness to use thoughtful logic and reason based on no predudices.

    "Doodie head has many meanings but it is mostly used to describe someone who is an idiot."

    Regards Tony
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    64,789
    Ratings:
    +43,919
    Religion:
    Atheist
    No, I used a strong example to get my point across. And yet you did not get it. You only made another claim. Just as my example would be of just another claim. My extreme claim was not based upon logic and apparently neither was yours.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    19,371
    Ratings:
    +9,141
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Good point, personally I see it is only One God. Yet the quandary is this God is well beyond our understanding in Essence. Using logic and reason, I also find this concept in creation. Can we actually explain the essence of any of creation, the cause of any of it?

    We seem to know things via their attributes.

    So I see God is defined as the cause of causes and known only by attributes.

    So, I see the best description of God based on all the evidence I have pursued is found in the Bible, it is a single translated word that says Christ.

    Christ has meaning it means 'Annointed One'. We are given a focal point of all attributes.

    I see the given evidence of Godis the person who was Annointed by God.

    The Annointed Ones are the source of all evidence of God.

    Regards Tony
     
  18. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    19,371
    Ratings:
    +9,141
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Yes I do not see why non believers are not able to post. This is an attempt to explore a subject minus the ridicule and insults that can be delivered between believers and likewise between believers and non believers.

    I have already responded to one such reply.

    Regards Tony
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    19,371
    Ratings:
    +9,141
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Try it with respect, without the insulting aspect.

    Regards Tony
     
  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    64,789
    Ratings:
    +43,919
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Oh look! A Ford. No, maybe a Chevy.

    Nope, I was wrong that was definitely a Dodge. Yep we have a Dodge here.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    64,789
    Ratings:
    +43,919
    Religion:
    Atheist
    There is no need. Now you know your error. The example that I used was only done to make it clear.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...