A nice story about megafloods is here Megafloods of the Ice Age but it's a bit obsolete since it assumes the Clovis people were first in North America but there's a lot of evidence they weren't.
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Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD
- Thread starter Little Nipper
- Start date
Great point.
@Link is correct in general terms. https://www.science.org/content/art...led-half-world-asia-main-migration-out-africa
DNA leaves little doubt: All non-Africans alive today descend from a single wave of migration out of Africa, perhaps sometime between 50,000 and 60,000 years ago. But over the years, scientists have found a handful of modern human sites that suggest our species may have wandered from its birthplace even earlier. A study published today in Nature Communications provides some of the strongest evidence yet of such an early dispersal, thousands of kilometers from Africa. Inside a cave in Laos, scientists have dated a pair of modern human bones to between 68,000 and 86,000 years ago. Although these precocious migrants likely didn’t contribute much genetically to modern populations, they blazed a trail into Southeast Asia followed by later generations.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The Channeled Scablands are on the other side of the state from where I live. A local geologist has a YouTube channel where he goes into those floods that were mentioned in your link in detail. This is just one of the video lectures that he has made:
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The point is that there were not all in one place in Africa. You may not realize this because we so often use flat maps that exaggerate the size of areas the further that they are from the equator. After Asia Africa is the second largest continent. And mankind was not limited to one small area. For the myth to work for man as a whole all of man would have had to have lived in one small part of Africa and that was not the case. Also Even 50,000 years ago the genetic bottleneck from such an event would be obvious today. Here is an article that also describes the ancient DNA in Africa and how it can be found in more than just one place:
What Ancient DNA Reveals About Life in Africa 20,000 Years Ago
Newly sequenced African aDNA shows dynamic ancient migratory patterns and interactions around the Later Stone Age that shaped human history.
www.sapiens.org
Audie
Veteran Member
I'da thunk you smart enough not to
write something ambiguous.
Those mutually denigratory commentaries aside, the usefulness of symbolic writings is a dubious affair, like any other free for all.
I think Bible study is a pointless bore
Oh good! Another thread about the biblical flood. It seems about the right time.
I'm curious how Noah and company were able to get coontie from Florida to use as a host plant to keep Atala butterflies alive during the flood? Given that the butterfly is host specific and comes from a place that Noah didn't even know to exist in his time. And that is just one species of maybe 10 million plus that would have been wiped out by a global flood.
How many is two honey bees? 2 bees or two hives? Same for ants, hornets, wasps, yellowjackets, sweat bees, all the stingless bees, the wood boring bees, potter wasps, tarantula hawks, mud daubers, scoliid wasps that prey on scarab grubs, the ground nesting bees and literally thousands of species of parasitic wasps that require host insects to survive. Oh myI Wood boring bees!? Carpenter ants! Termites! All on on a wooden ship. Not to mention powder post beetles, wood boring beetles like buprestids and cerambycids, and carpenter moths.
The whole idea of two in insects is confounded by numerous problems with what that would mean.
There are over 150,000 species of Hymenoptera and that is just one single order of insects. There are roughly 30 orders with at least a million described species and that is just the ones that have been described and named. There are likely millions more. How were they saved from the flood?
How many is two honey bees? 2 bees or two hives? Same for ants, hornets, wasps, yellowjackets, sweat bees, all the stingless bees, the wood boring bees, potter wasps, tarantula hawks, mud daubers, scoliid wasps that prey on scarab grubs, the ground nesting bees and literally thousands of species of parasitic wasps that require host insects to survive. Oh myI Wood boring bees!? Carpenter ants! Termites! All on on a wooden ship. Not to mention powder post beetles, wood boring beetles like buprestids and cerambycids, and carpenter moths.
The whole idea of two in insects is confounded by numerous problems with what that would mean.
There are over 150,000 species of Hymenoptera and that is just one single order of insects. There are roughly 30 orders with at least a million described species and that is just the ones that have been described and named. There are likely millions more. How were they saved from the flood?
Eucalypt leaves for the Koalas would have been a nightmare as would Casuarina seeds for Glossy Black Cockatoos. Did he travel to Australia and collect the food trees for these species?
Any sort of obligate host/food relationship would have been a logistical nightmare. How do you sustain all the species of Strepsiptera for a year?
And what would keep the polyphagous species of insects out of the cattle, donkey, horst, elephant, rhinocerus, ox, muskox, etc. feed? Or the stored product pest insects?
I suppose they had to send out expeditions or get all the host plants Door Dash.
A creationist once told me that God put all the animals into hyberation so they wouldn't need food or water. I couldn't find that detail in the text. Almost like they made it up.
Even if he gets all the food and keeps everything alive until the water recedes there's the problem of stopping the carnivores wiping out the pairs of prey animals until they can breed enough to sustain the losses. One pair of preying mantis would have wiped out hundreds of bug species.
That's the good thing about religious text, you can add bits and/or ignore bits.
Why go to the hassle of having Noah bob about on a boat full of hibernating animals. An omnipotent God could have just wiped out all the pesky humans and started again. The whole thing was a massive failure anyway, the sinning continued on as if nothing happened.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The value of your linked article is in making the case for rejecting anything coming from creationist websites. This attitude is sometimes mistaken for the genetic fallacy: "The genetic fallacy is the act of rejecting or accepting an argument on the basis of its origin rather than its content." But that's not what's happening here. I am not declaring their arguments unsound. I'm saying that I am not interested in articles from a dishonest source, because they can generate arguments that seem sound by leaving out science that invalidates the argument. This article does exactly that:
"Fossils are one of the best evidences of a global flood, especially where many fossils are found. For example, we don’t find marine creatures, such as fish, clams, and corals, buried and fossilized on the sea floor where they once lived. Instead, we find most of them buried in sedimentary rocks on the continents, even on high mountains. For that to happen, the ocean waters had to totally flood the continents. And that’s exactly what the Bible describes during the global flood."
If one is unaware of the fact that mountains are often raised former seabeds, then that argument seems sound. If the highest mountains have marine fossils on their tops, then all land was once submerged. You can't identify that deception by evaluating the argument if unaware of the relevant science. Knowing that these people have these values and use these methods to promote their agenda tells us to ignore them. That's different from saying that their argument is fallacious, which is what the genetic fallacy requires.
Here's another example of "Lying for Jesus" in creationist apologetics, from DNA tests prove Darwin Was Wrong - Ape DNA very different from human DNA - Laws of Genetics Contradicts Ape to Human Evolution :
"But whenever scientists are confronted with anything that has to do with God or evolution, then scientists on the whole always lie to us and they are brazen about it. For example, until 1956, scientists falsely claimed that humans and apes had the same number of chromosomes and therefore humans evolved from apes. But the fact is, humans actually have 23 pairs of chromosomes while apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes. Apes, gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutans, etc. all have more chromosomes than humans."
Once again, here we have a dishonest argument that omits important information about human chromosome 2 that cannot be rejected simply by examining the argument, which is based in the deception that man would have had to have suffered a chromosome dropout to go from 24 pairs of chromosomes to 23 pairs if he evolved from ape ancestors, which would of course be lethal.
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A creationist solved this problem by claiming that carnivores didn't exist until after the flood, so the lions ate vegetation and grain. I couldn't find that in the text.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
You never will. They need to make things up to sustain their fantasy. In effect, they are writing their own Bible.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
1. please use proper scientific source when you wish to discuss scientific research
2. answers in genesis are known liars, manipulators, con-men
3. the biblical flood makes several very easily testable predictions: universal genetic bottleneck & a global geological layer which matches the date of the universal bottleneck. Neither exists. Story debunked.