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Featured Evidence for “a god” at John 10:33

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Hockeycowboy, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Well I refuted those in several of my previous postings.
     
  2. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. It's become quite apparent that your cult-like heresies are not in line with scripture, as I've documented.
     
  3. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Not a chance. You screwed up that scripture too, as is your custom.
     
  4. THE Art Vandelay

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    I'll take that nonsense reply as an admission you are wrong. Good job!
     
  5. THE Art Vandelay

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    Yet you seem to be fine with your own blasphemous, cult-like heresies that contradict scripture. Curious.
     
  6. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    #66 Spartan, Nov 12, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  7. THE Art Vandelay

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  8. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    Thus Jesus as Christ has declared that all we can know of God is Christ. But the flesh of Jesus is not God and Christ, the Holy Spirit, is also not God in Essence. The Holy Spirit enemates from God.

    That is why Christ is the name we come to God Through, not the flesh of Jesus.

    Regards Tony
     
  9. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    One can post a million passages, none will show that Jesus, a flesh body, is God.

    Christ is a different story, but Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit and thus be ame the Name we all come to God through, which is 'Christ'.

    Regards Tony
     
  10. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    I just produced passages which demonstrate that men have seen the Father, such as Daniel, John, even in vision, and they aren't the only ones, and men have heard directly the voice of the Father.

    Jesus is God (Yeshua JEHOVAH, the person of the Son), is deity by nature (in the form of God; Philippians 2:6), see the texts which I already produced in this thread, such as Genesis 19:24, etc.

    Jesus is Immanuel/Emmanuel, "God with us" (Numbers 14:9; Judges 6:13; 2 Chronicles 13:12, 32:8; Psalms 46:7,11; Isaiah 7:14, 8:8,10; Haggai 1:13, 2:4; Matthew 1:23, 28:20; John 7:33, 13:33). Jesus is called "Christ" (Matthew 1:21), "the Christ" (Matthew 16:20, 26:63; John 20:31).

    "Christ/Messiah" just means anointed (Psalms 45:7; Isaiah 11:2-5, 42:1-4, 59:21; Luke 4:18,41). The Son is the anointed, even from eternity (Luke 2:11,26).

    The Holy Ghost is a differing Person/Being than the Son and the Father.

    The Son took upon Himself the "form of a servant" (Philippians 2:7), and is thus "God manifest in the flesh":

    1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.​

    His glory was mostly veiled, though seen on several occasions:

    Joh_17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.​

    Jesus' flesh (of men) is now glorified and sits at the right hand of the Father, on His throne. It (Jesus' flesh of men) is glorified, eternally. He is the God-man.

    Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

    Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

    Heb_1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    Heb_10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

    Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.​

    You'll have to define "Essence", but when you do, it will be mistaken, as the "nature" of the Holy Ghost/Spirit is not given in scripture, and is a mystery to all. Silence will be golden to you The Holy Ghost/Spirit, however, is an eternal Person/Being as scripture states, "he".

    Some stumble over the Holy Spirit being called “it”, and by this claim that He is only a force, a power, a non-intelligence.

    Yet, they should also recognize that Jesus was called “it” [Revelation 12:4 KJB], “child” [Revelation 12:2,4,5 KJB], “holy thing” [Luke 1:35 KJB] and “holy child” [Acts 4:27,30 KJB], all of which are also neuter gender. Jesus is still a "person" [Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 2:10 KJB] and masculine.

    The Father in Heaven, who indeed is a "person" [Hebrews 1:3; Job 13:8 KJB], is also given neuter terms, such as "Ancient of Days" [Daniel 7:9,13,22 KJB] and "Majesty" [Hebrews 1:3, 8:1 KJB], "I AM", "the living" [Matthew 16:16, 26:63; John 6:69; Acts 14:15 KJB], "Maker" [Job 36:3; Hosea 8:14; Hebrews 11:10 KJB], "Creator" [Romans 1:25; 1 Peter 4:19 KJB], and even referred to as "it" connected with "this voice", and "angel" (message) [John 12:29 KJB], etc, etc.

    The wicked angels, also "persons" (fallen, contrasted to unfallen) [Luke 15:7 KJB], are also called “it” [Luke 8:29, 9:39, 11:14, etc. KJB], but they too are intelligent [though created] beings and cited in the masculine.

    Neuter terms do not automatically mean inanimate, for instance, the terms “child”, “babe”, “person”, “mail-carrier”, “flight attendant”, etc.

    Do not be deceived by the word "Powers" into thinking you are dealing with a mere force, since the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost/Spirit, as well as unfallen [as Gabriel and legions of Light] and fallen angels [as Lucifer and legions of Lie-ght], etc are all designated as "powers", each whom are living persons, living beings, see

    Heavenly “powers” (simply means an 'authority', see also 1 Peter 3:22 KJB, "authorities"):

    Ephesians 1:20 KJB - Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

    Ephesians 1:21 KJB - Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

    Ephesians 3:10 KJB - To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    Ephesians 6:12 KJB - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Colossians 1:16 KJB - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Titus 3:1 KJB - Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

    1 Peter 3:22 KJB - Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.​

    The Holy Spirit wills and is omniscient:

    1 Corinthians 12:11 KJB - But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

    Colossians 2:2 KJB - That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

    Colossians 2:3 KJB - In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.​
     
  11. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    Sounds like Jesuit theology to me, which vaporizes God (Genesis 1; Acts 5, etc) into nothing. You'll have to define "emanates". The Holy Ghost/Spirit is a Person/Being that is "sent" from God the Father, and so also the Son, as ambassador, in the name of Jesus:

    Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:​

    "proceeedeth" means to come from one location to another, see Psalms 133:1-3; Acts 2:1-3,33; Revelation 5:6.

    This just like the God the Father, and also the Holy Spirit/Ghost having sent the Son:

    Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.​

    The Ancient of Days [Daniel 7:9,13,22 KJB] is The Heavenly Father which is "Our Father who art in Heaven ..." [Matthew 6:9; Luke 11:2; KJB etc.]

    The Son, Jesus Christ is also a Father [Isaiah 9:6 KJB], see Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1 [He is true Israel, and as true Israel, he has children, even twelve tribes [James 1:1 KJB], see Revelation 7:3-8; 14:1-5 KJB], then turn to Hebrews 2:9-13; Isaiah 8:8-20 [which Hebrews quotes, see Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:18 KJB], for His disciples are His "children" that the Father gave unto Him [see also John 13:33 KJB], being the true "overcomer" [John 16:33; Revelation 3:21 KJB], the real "Prince" with God [Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5 KJB], being Lord over His own house, whose house are we [Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33 KJB], who himself is the "elect" [Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6 KJB] of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization [2 Corinthians 1:20 KJB].

    The Holy Ghost/Spirit is also a Father, for "the man" Christ Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost; see Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35 KJB, and we as Christians are "babes", even "born again" [1 Peter 1:23 KJB] of the Holy Ghost [John 3:3,5,6,7,8 KJB], and thus we are "born of God", the Holy Ghost [John 1:13; 1 John 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18 KJB]

    They are all Fathers, but not the same person/being, nor in the same manner. They are all Creators [Makers; Ecclesiastes 12:1 HOT, see also 'septuaginta'], and thus they are all Head over all creation [body]. This is what is referred to in scripture, as Godhead.

    Simply reading scripture disproves the error of ecumenical Baha'i.

    Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
    Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
    Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.​

    Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
    Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    (Philippians 2:11 when saying "Lord", is not merely referring to Kingship, but citing OT, JEHOVAH, under koine Greek Kurios. It is saying that everyone will acknowledge, sooner or later that Jesus is JEHOVAH, the Son, and it will be to the glory of God the Father, who stated it on numerous occasions)​

    1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:​
     
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  12. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Beats your Heretical posts all day long!
     
  13. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I don't buy into The Bible, but if I had to pick solely from reading these passages I would decide that Jesus was the very first born of the Holy Spirit and not God the Father. Thus created from the Holy Spirit. From the Father's bosom.

    If Jesus is born of the Holy Spirit that would make Jesus of Highest Character and perhaps equal to God in character, but far less in experience than God.

    Why is there a distinction between Father and Son? The Trinity makes no sense to me. I would say they are distinct individuals.
     
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  14. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    They are distinct individuals. They are three Persons/Beings. "Trinity" (though several definitions exist) is generally erroneous (such as Roman Catholicism dogma of it).

    The Father is the Father, while the Son is the Son. That is their distinction and relation. There has eternally been that distinction. The Son is the "Amen" of the Father. The Son rejoices in doing the Will of His Father. The Father says, Let's do this, and the Son says, Here am I my Father; to carry it out with the Father.

    It is a demonstration of the eternality of Family, the nature of Godhead (not the same word as 'God') in character.
     
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  15. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    That is a slight confusion of natures. Deity's and mankind's.

    The Son eternally existed even before taking upon Himself the "form of a servant" (flesh of men), ever having been in the "form of God" (Philippians 2).

    The flesh of Jesus, as a man, was indeed created, made. Yet, the Son is not so made. The Son was, is eternal. "I AM".

    Gal_4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    This is seen in Genesis 1, where the Father says, "Let there be ..." and the Son in compliance agreement, so "made", while the Holy Ghost/Spirit, "moved" and "saw" (witnessed).​

    Notice, that the "Son" already existed, before taking upon Himself the flesh of mankind, being the law of fleshy heredity from Adam (genes). He was "sent" from the bosom/embrace of the Father in Heaven (3rd).

    Heb_10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:​

    Did the Person/Being of the Holy Ghost have a part to play in this? Yes. As recorded by Luke.
     
  16. THE Art Vandelay

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    Only in your mind, little one.
     
  17. THE Art Vandelay

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    For all your ignorant rambling, you remain completely wrong.
     
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  18. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    That's very interesting and makes sense. I would have to read more.
     
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  19. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Reading Phillipians 2 you would come to a Trinity. Equal with God is God. Perhaps different roles in their Godhood.
     
  20. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    Baha'i theology is that all the Messengers of God are born of the Holy Spirit. That is what makes them all One. The distinction in this world is the Name and the Message, but they are all from God.

    Baha'u'llah revealed that He is the Father promised by Christ.

    Regards Tony
     
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