EU Chief Calls For Open Borders

[esmith]

As the subject states the EU Chief is advocating for open borders withing Europe. Now I assume that he is basically calling for the end of individual nations.
Just wondering what the opinion is of the idea from our European members.

 

[LuisDantas]

Here is hoping!

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

As the subject states the EU Chief is advocating for open borders withing Europe. Now I assume that he is basically calling for the end of individual nations.
Just wondering what the opinion is of the idea from our European members.

In what way is this new? The EU has been an open borders travel area for decades.

 

[Jumi]

He's out of touch with the population of the constituent countries. He doesn't know or care much what the people want and they don't know much what he stands for.

 

[Estro Felino]

You mean Juncker? The president of the European Commission? Yes, he said that.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ft-European-leaders-calls-borders-opened.html
He is afraid. And he should be afraid. Because next year France will finally exit the EU and the EU will collapse like a house of cards, slowly and inexorably.
It doesn't matter. After removing the ECB, we will make another European Community. Better than this. Where any European state keeps its absolute sovereignty and its borders. And with no central bank, above all.

 

[YmirGF]

In what way is this new? The EU has been an open borders travel area for decades.

That has changed in recent months due to the waves of "Syrian" refugees.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

He is afraid. And he should be afraid. Because next year France will finally exit the EU and the EU will collapse like a house of cards, slowly and inexorably.

Can I quote you on this on 1st January 2018?

 

[Estro Felino]

Can I quote you on this on 1st January 2018?

I really don't understand why you, as a British person, care whether the EU still exists or not, given that the UK is already out.
By the way..you can quote me on this. It's just logic. The FN is the first French party, and the French will elect Marine Le Pen as President. Don't you think that Le Pen will immediately put Frexit into action (which is the main reason why the French will vote for her)?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I really don't understand why you, as a British person, care whether the EU still exists or not, given that the UK is already out.

I care because I'm one of the 63% of Scots who voted to remain and no, the UK isn't out of the EU until we trigger Article 50 - which we have not yet done and probably won't do for the foreseeable future. Even then it'll take a good few years. Triggering Article 50 will be the beginning of our exit process.

 

[LuisDantas]

Where any European state keeps its absolute sovereignty and its borders. And with no central bank, above all.

I don't know about a central bank, but it is impossible to have absolute sovereignity and borders.

I don't think it is a bad thing, either. But it is very bad indeed to waste much effort attempting to attain those things.

 

[Jumi]

I don't know about a central bank, but it is impossible to have absolute sovereignity and borders.

Then I don't think you have much an idea of EU, but not many people do.

I don't think it is a bad thing, either. But it is very bad indeed to waste much effort attempting to attain those things.

It also doesn't seem worth the effort to destroy national sovereignty when the back up plan seems to be chaos(economic and otherwise) and an increasingly unbalanced population pyramid.

 

[Altfish]

Juncker was the man who made the UK vote Leave.

 

[LuisDantas]

Then I don't think you have much an idea of EU, but not many people do.

That is accurate (far as I can tell), but at first glance unrelated to my claim.

It also doesn't seem worth the effort to destroy national sovereignty when the back up plan seems to be chaos (economic and otherwise) and an increasingly unbalanced population pyramid.

You can't destroy what could never exist in the first place. Sovereignty is glorified make-believe. Or maybe I should call it accursed make-believe, given the price paid to try and maintain the delusion.

One could destroy the delusion itself, of course. And we must. The sooner, the better. There will be less sorrow as we will go through the sobering.


In short... what on Earth are you talking about?

 

[Jumi]

That is accurate (far as I can tell), but at first glance unrelated to my claim.

The EU work much like the president said.. if the problem is big enough, the solution is to lie.

Looking at it locally, destroying my country's currency in favor of EU currency has put us in depression that could have been avoided easily. Same with unnecessary belligrent behavior with Russia the costs of which are starting to become real, now that our education system is being pulled down. There's no jobs in many usually vibrant areas, yet more people are coming in. Mostly young men with no education, no love for western values and not much interest in learning them.

In Sweden the short-term consequences have been horrendous enough to have even much of the "open borders" politicians come around. Say what you will, you don't have to live here.

You can't destroy what could never exist in the first place. Sovereignty is glorified make-believe. Or maybe I should call it accursed make-believe, given the price paid to try and maintain the delusion.

It doesn't matter how you view it, but putting effort and cost into destroying what's there is higher than keeping things as they are. The benefits for the common people are non-existent and in the realm of imagination.

That is accurate (far as I can tell), but at first glance unrelated to my claim.

One could destroy the delusion itself, of course. And we must. The sooner, the better. There will be less sorrow as we will go through the sobering.[/QUOTE]
That is your idealistic view. Perhaps you see us as sacrifices for greater good. So far the results have been devastating.

 

[LuisDantas]

Say what you will, you don't have to live here.

More like "I have little hope of managing to". I would dearly like to, even if it turns out that the Europeans are indeed by and large unable and unwilling to sustain a true European Union.

Even so, you have still attained a far better grasp of the virtues of civilization than we Brazilians ever had. And that is something I dearly love.

That is your idealistic view.

I would hope so.

Idealism is paramount whenever we attempt to deal with populations measuring from the hundreds of millions of people upwards. All the alternatives are disgusting at best.

Perhaps you see us as sacrifices for greater good. So far the results have been devastating.

I don't. I see you as dangerously deluded.

I sincerely believe that you have no better alternative, despite your obvious disagreement.

I flat out doubt there would be any true benefits from attempting to protect the appearance of sovereignty. Or for that matter, that there were ever such benefits.

Nationalism has very consistently been the scourge of humanity. It gives no hints of becoming anything worthier, either.

 

[Jumi]

The Brits dodged a bullet by not joining the currency union and are now dodging another if they are allowed to leave.

 

[Jumi]

More like "I have little hope of managing to". I would dearly like to.

Don't worry, we might be soon joining your country in the bottom if things don't change.

I don't. I see you as dangerously deluded.

Likewise.

I flat out doubt there would be any true benefits from attempting to protect the appearance of sovereignty. Or for that matter, that there were ever such benefits.

Indeed? Then I suggest you invite the "Islamic state" guys to your neighborhood.

Nationalism has very consistently been the scourge of humanity.

Apparently the opposite is just as dangerous.

 

[LuisDantas]

Indeed? Then I suggest you invite the "Islamic state" guys to your neighborhood.

I take it that you are implying that nationalism would somehow protect people from them, as opposed to enabling and spurring them?

Apparently the opposite is just as dangerous.

I have never seen any evidence pointing towards that. Then again, I have never seen nearly enough of the "opposite", either.

 

[Jumi]

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of nationalism but open borders are madness.

 

[LuisDantas]

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of nationalism but open borders are madness.

I guess I just don't understand what you are proposing as an alternative.