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Early American History was Intertwined with Faith

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by KenS, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Says the guy who swallows the Barton's "history"! :D
     
  2. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Ken, it might have not effect on you that the Bartons are condemned as liars even by conservative Evangelical and Catholic historians, but I think wise folks will know what that bodes.
     
  3. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Except they have many of the original documents and we can pinpoint the fact that what people say today is not matching empirical and verifiable evidence.
     
  4. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    It's application was fake not that what happened is fake.
     
    #24 KenS, Feb 22, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  5. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Funny, it doesn't seem to be working that way. Actually, it was set up as "freedom of religion" (not freedom from religion) whether Catholic or Protestant... secularism is what is changing things.

    And, yes, it was a strawman
     
  6. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Only on the empirical and verifiable portions :D Some people just ignore the empirical and verifiable and not mentioning any names, Sunstone...

    ....

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    ....

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    oops! :D
     
  7. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    The writings of Washington and Jefferson and their historical evidence are not lies. :D
     
  8. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Again, says the guy who quotes the Bartons! :D
     
  9. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shown on man." -Thomas Jefferson

    "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Millions of Innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effects of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites." - Thomas Jefferson

    "I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies." -Thomas Jefferson

    "The United States is not a Christian nation anymore than a Jewish or Mohammedan nation." -John Adams

    "The government of the United States, is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." -John Adams

    "What has been Christianity's fruits? Superstition, Bigotry, and Persecution." -James Madison

    "The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." -Abraham Lincolon
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Again, since the documentation is there.

    As I said before the "attack the person when you can't attack the message" is to old to be trying to use it.
     
  11. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Give it time. Conservatives are trying to rewrite American history in school and in the media.
     
  12. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Abraham Lincoln separated his belief in God and Jesus from Christianity's dogma saying:

    I have never united myself to any church because I have found difficulty in giving my assent without mental reservation to the long complicated statements of Christian doctrine which characterize their articles of belief and confessions of faith. When any church will inscribe over its altar as the sole qualification for membership the Savior's condensed statement of the substance of both law and gospel: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind, and love thy neighbor as thyself," that church I will join with all my heart.

    And since the OP is about US history and faith, the central role of Puritans, Quakers and others must be part of the discussion.
     
  13. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Would you like me to equally quote thes people? Or perhaps you are cherry picking and taking it out of context. :)
     
  14. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    1) Yes, he is acknowledging his faith here
    2) Abraham Lincoln Family Church - he must have found that church :D
     
  15. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

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    I doubt that is true. I do know he removed any mention of miracles and the like. People have this notion that the founding fathers were christian. They weren't. Just because republican media tells you that, doesn't mean it's true.
     
  16. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    It actually is verified through the letters and journals.
     
  17. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    That's not true. Thomas Jefferson was very influenced by deism, as well as the scholarship at that time. At that time, there was a movement in scholarship, which became dominant, that rejected the miracles of Jesus. Scholars simply stated that they didn't happen, or they found natural explanations for the miracles. So instead of Jesus walking on water, he was said to be walking on ice, and it simply looked like he was walking on water.

    Jefferson was pretty clear that he distrusted the Gospel writers, and claimed they were untrustworthy correspondents. So trying to get to the heart of the message of Jesus, he cut up the Gospels in order to separate the philosophy of Jesus from, what he said, “the corruption of schismatizing followers.”

    We also know why he did it. He said, as laying out his intention, "the result of a life of enquiry and reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions.” What resulted was his first volume, which was called the Philosophy of Jesus. And its as basically a sayings Gospel.

    For the second one, he did a bit more work. Now, he didn't take just one Bible and cut it up. He took at least six copies of the NT, some in Greek and Latin, and compiled what he called "The Life and Morals of Jesus Christ." What's largely missing are the miracles, as he said they were "contrary to reason." Telling, he even leaves out the resurrection.

    We can read his correspondence, and know why he did it. The version you're putting forth is not found in his works. Instead, he's pretty clear that he was separating Jesus from the rubbish.

    Kind of like I did above? Your version of Jefferson putting together his Bible does not match empirical and verifiable evidence.

    We do have many original documents. But that isn't all that history is composed of. Some of those original documents contain falsities, or even straight out lies. And your argument here is so vague that it is meaningless.

    What application are you talking about? The fact is, as was first stated, the U.S. history is filled with smallpox. That's not false. Its not fake. I have no idea what your argument is here.
     
  18. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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  19. M83

    M83 Too busy staring at my shoes

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    Except it doesn't mention that Abraham really did anything with the church. It even says this: Abraham Lincoln did not formally join the church, but his wife became a member on April 13, 1852. Mary is the only Lincoln who seemed to do anything with the church aside from baptism and funerals.
     
  20. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Jefferson understood the influence of the Jews on the Gospel, and did the same thing Marcion did in the 2nd century. He removed the Jewish portions (orthodoxy) and concentrated on the gospel (gnosis). He understood dualism and believed more gnostic.
     
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