Does it matter what we believe if we don’t love one another ?

[nPeace]

Yeah, that's a problem. I've seen it. A person "witnesses" to another and tells them how much God love them... The person converts... goes to the church and get ignored. But maybe not totally. Sometimes, at church, people are treated very special, then get ignored. Or, when they are new converts, get the royal treatment, and then ignored. But even with "love" between two people... how long before that wears off? Or, was it even true love or just a shallow love? And, not that I can do it, but the best and most fulfilling love was when I was the one showing it and doing it for others. But that's tough to maintain. At least for me it is. And then I complain how unloved and alone I feel.

That does happen, and it is a reason many go back into the world, and leave religion.
This is why Jesus said, love must be the identifying mark of his true followers.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I can agree with that.
Some people consider disciplining in love to be cruel, and unnecessary.
Some people don't even like counsel, or correction. To them, that is not showing love... even when the person is trying to save them from burning their house.

Well, there is a Danish joke about that as per counseling: Show me your wardrobe and I shall tell you, who your social and human life counselor is.
In other words and I am honest now. If you try to save another human as if that other human is you in effect, you can end up harming yourself and/or the other human.
So here it is: There is private, personal and professional when you try to save another human, but you have to leave out the private.
I have been there in both direction and learned from that.

 

[Polymath257]

Does it matter what we believe if we don’t love one another ?
In order to love one another, it matters what we believe. John 13:35
Only when we come to know God, can we truly love. 1 John 4:7-8

Yes. The lack of love or the cooling off of love, is just one of the reason for the decline in the "Churches".
However, once we belong to the true religion (James 1:26-27), what we believe does not matter, if we do not have love. 1 Corinthians 13:1-3

I think one of the more horrible teachings is that people who don't believe the way you do are incapable of true love. It dehumanizes others and that makes it easier to commit injustice.

For this reason, those quotes of John are, I believe, supremely immoral.

From what I have seen, it is that people *care* about others that religion is so often rejected. All too often, religions come across as hateful and full of condemnation instead of loving and caring. That is a very good reason to reject those religions.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Isn’t love and unity the main purpose of religion?

I've never encountered a religion that made either of these its purpose.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

I've never encountered a religion that made either of these its purpose.

What about the poster's religion; the Baha'i Faith? Maybe not love but they do emphasize on unity a bit.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

If you try to save another human as if that other human is you in effect, you can end up harm yourself and/or the other human.

Reminds me of the relationship between my parents and me in my adolescence.
I'm glad they've changed their minds, though.
And I'm glad I'm not as bitter and hateful as I used to be partly because of that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think one of the more horrible teachings is that people who don't believe the way you do are incapable of true love. It dehumanizes others and that makes it easier to commit injustice.

For this reason, those quotes of John are, I believe, supremely immoral.

From what I have seen, it is that people *care* about others that religion is so often rejected. All too often, religions come across as hateful and full of condemnation instead of loving and caring. That is a very good reason to reject those religions.

I can see why one can see those passages of John as immoral. I would offer one has to look beyond the verse as to what it is offering about Love. It is about the source.

It is like partaking of the heat and light of the sun. One has to be out in the midday sun on a clear day to experience the full heat and light.

So if all of us want to choose Love, what is the source? What is "true love". John is offering a source, yet the same book does also offers that we, one and all, are created with the potential of that Love within.

Is love greater than what we find in this material world? I only offer this passage as a further thought, I apologise beforehand, if you do not consider it appropriate.

"Know thou of a certainty that Love is the secret of God's holy Dispensation, the manifestation of the All-Merciful, the fountain of spiritual outpourings. Love is heaven's kindly light, the Holy Spirit's eternal breath that vivifieth the human soul. Love is the cause of God's revelation unto man, the vital bond inherent, in accordance with the divine creation, in the realities of things. Love is the one means that ensureth true felicity both in this world and the next. Love is the light that guideth in darkness, the living link that uniteth God with man, that assureth the progress of every illumined soul. Love is the most great law that ruleth this mighty and heavenly cycle, the unique power that bindeth together the divers elements of this material world, the supreme magnetic force that directeth the movements of the spheres in the celestial realms. Love revealeth with unfailing and limitless power the mysteries latent in the universe. Love is the spirit of life unto the adorned body of mankind, the establisher of true civilization in this mortal world, and the shedder of imperishable glory upon every high-aiming race and nation."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 27

Regards Tony

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What about the poster's religion; the Baha'i Faith? Maybe not love but they do emphasize on unity a bit.

Yeah... they're kind of the religious equivalent of this:

I don't see creating a new religion as an act that is consistent with the goal of unity.

Edit: and while Baha'is pay lip-service to the idea that their religion is the unification of the worlds' religions, in practice, this seems to be more of a proselytizing tactic than a pursuit of actual unity: "hey, I know you're worried about committing apostasy from your current religion, but our religion is the successor to yours, so it wouldn't really be apostasy if you convert. Go on! Try it!"

 

[Brickjectivity]

Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?

Any group, including any religious group, has a certain potential for agape. The potential varies from group to group, but its a lot. If people are together believing in doing good then there is a lot of potential. You can open the tap to that. You can't put the love there, but you can activate it for good purposes. You can also misdirect it. Even agape can be misdirected. You can't put love there, but you can tap it and make a channel for it to come out. You can make the group realize its there and release it. You can also confound, confuse and block it or direct it in useless and incompetent directions.

So...yes. My religion has true love and unity, and the people really care for each other.

 

[Heyo]

Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?

People love and care for each other not because of religion but despite of it.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Edit: and while Baha'is pay lip-service to the idea that their religion is the unification of the worlds' religions, in practice, this seems to be more of a proselytizing tactic than a pursuit of actual unity: "hey, I know you're worried about committing apostasy from your current religion, but our religion is the successor to yours, so it wouldn't really be apostasy if you convert. Go on! Try it!"

What's really coincidental for you to say that is when I was being interviewed for the Baha'i Faith they indirectly told me if I had any Christian friends that I should let them assume I'm a Christian so I don't get harassed about them with their idea of sin. "Just tell them you're Christian." - Literal quote from the interviewer.

 

[Yerda]

People love and care for each other not because of religion but despite of it.

Perhaps both impulses spring from the same source. Or one is an expression of the other.

 

[Heyo]

Perhaps both impulses spring from the same source. Or one is an expression of the other.

I don't believe it but I also don't know why. I'd have to think about it.

 

[Yerda]

I don't believe it but I also don't know why. I'd have to think about it.

Good answer.

 

[Vee]

Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

My religion is certainly not just a 'church on Sunday' thing. We have a very loving bond with each other and we do our best to make people feel welcome and cared for.
In fact, love is so important that Jesus defined it as the characteristic that would identify his followers. “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”—John 13:35.
Unfortunately many people today, including a number of religious leaders, don't set the right example.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

I don't believe it but I also don't know why. I'd have to think about it.

Fortunately life isn't a one-sided coin. There are the religious and the irreligious. There are 783,137 words in the King James Bible. Of course people are going to cherry-pick whatever they like or don't. If you want a religion to teach you love and unity I am sorry but those religions also tend to be cult-like as well. If you want someone to hold your hand, you have to hold their hand too. The Baha'i Faith is so grassroots and anti-cult like many modern NRMs that there's virtually no hand to be held. Yes, they have discussions, devotionals, studies and there's over five million of them worldwide, but finding them in the sea of Christian and Christian denominations, Muslims, among other more dominate faiths is difficult. I live in a county of about one-million people and about five-hundred Baha'is are here; and only a tenth of them are actively seeking community.

 

[stvdv]

As for the subject of love.... It can be effective, though sometimes I think tough love can go too far too.

IMO:

"unconditional Love" is all I need. Lacking unconditional Love might be the reason that some people resort to "tough love"

 

[stvdv]

Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

My Master embodied "True Love", as in "unconditional Love". Of course His followers still need to learn this

Definitely not just a "Church on Sunday", they have "Thursday"

Sai Baba has said "My devotee thinks of God 24/7". So, He sets the bar high. All will fail...a good exercise to become humble. First step on the Spiritual Path I think

 

[stvdv]

Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?

My Master said about this:
"Helping hands are better than praying lips"

 

[stvdv]

My Master said about this:
"Helping hands are better than praying lips"

AND

"IF you think you help the other, then it is already reduced to an egoistic act of service, better you see helping the other as an opportunity to help yourself"