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Does it matter what we believe if we don’t love one another ?

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Religion is alive and well in my opinion. However, I think things becoming so political, the mixing of religion and politics - it may cause a little instant gratification at first, but in the long run, it could cause people to take sides, and for certain religions to lose followers.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Religion is alive and well in my opinion. However, I think things becoming so political, the mixing of religion and politics - it may cause a little instant gratification at first, but in the long run, it could cause people to take sides, and for certain religions to lose followers.

I can agree with that. But I still wonder if people have not divorced love for others from their faith and replaced it with these things like politics and outward worship.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?

With a statement so broad it's hard to give an all-encompassing answer, but one, two generations ago, people in Europe attended church out of social pressure. Within the Catholic Church it is a sin not to go to Mass on Sunday. However, nowadays, church attendance is declining for various reasons.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Isn’t love and unity the main purpose of religion?
With a statement so broad it's hard to give an all-encompassing answer, but one, two generations ago, people in Europe attended church out of social pressure. Within the Catholic Church it is a sin not to go to Mass on Sunday. However, nowadays, church attendance is declining for various reasons.

That’s the point. What’s the point of religion if it’s just to pray and go to church?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?
Does it matter what we believe if we don’t love one another ?
In order to love one another, it matters what we believe. John 13:35
Only when we come to know God, can we truly love. 1 John 4:7-8

Yes. The lack of love or the cooling off of love, is just one of the reason for the decline in the "Churches".
However, once we belong to the true religion (James 1:26-27), what we believe does not matter, if we do not have love. 1 Corinthians 13:1-3
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I can agree with that. But I still wonder if people have not divorced love for others from their faith and replaced it with these things like politics and outward worship.

Dare I say it, I think organized religion is often too strict, and sometimes divorcing organized religion may be the only solution to being kind/loving/non-judgemental.

Not always, though.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?

My religion is the everyday world and the humans in it. I try to live it :)like that.
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
I don't have a religion, I have religious thought that is not attached to any faith. I have attended Unitarian Universalist sermons and everybody who goes on Sunday have probably known each other for years. It's very difficult to meet new people when nobody knows who you are. And what's worse is modern Unitarians don't really like talking about theology anymore. I've abandoned that religion, or rather, that religion has abandoned me in some ways. Probably because I felt no love or unity in the faith. I did feel special when I joined the religion and they placed me a section of the room designated for transcendentalists and pantheists though. *shrug*
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Does your religion have true love and unity and do the people really care for each other or is it just a ‘church on Sunday’ religion?

Is it that God comes first, then prayer, then rituals, then meditation, then preaching, then meetings but people are not on the list anywhere? Could this be a reason religion has been abandoned, because people don’t feel loved anymore?
Well, since you belong to a religion that wants all people to love one another and live in peace and unity, what's more important... to actually love all people and respect them for who they are or to push your religion as being the newest and truest? It's unfortunate, but Baha'is and Christians both believe and say that they love all people, but it's hard to put it into practice.

The problem, I think, is that both believe they are right... that they have the true message from God and the right interpretation of that message. Therefore, they are told to go "spread" the word or go "teach" others about the truth from God. What happens way too often is that the person is nice to people to try and get them to listen to them tell the story about their religion. So, can believers in those types of religions, those that believe they have the truth and are trying to make converts, really be honest about how they show "love" and are being "loving" to others? Will they still love them after the person has rejected the message? Or worse, after they have converted?

True love for all has got to be nearly impossible to actually accomplish. Can anyone really do that? Even loving all the people within your family? Or in your religion? But then add people that don't like you and your religion? And people that want to take advantage of you? Like if I asked you now if you could send me $10,000 would you do it? Out of love could you just send it and not worry about why I need it or what I'm going to do with it? Or, even if I was in rags and begging on a street corner and smelling of wine and only asked for a few dollars, would you give it to me? Knowing there is a good chance I'd just go buy another bottle of wine?

Everybody is in need of true love. How do you, as a Baha'i, show true love to everybody?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Isn’t love and unity the main purpose of religion?


That’s the point. What’s the point of religion if it’s just to pray and go to church?
Pure worship was indeed centered around love and truth, which results in unity.
However, religion - a form of worship - came about after the fall of man. It is really a system that God did not purpose, but one that Satan has used, and continues to use.

This is the reason why there are so many thousands of religions, which are all divided. Genesis 11:1-9
There is only one religion among all those, which God acknowledges (James 1:26-27), because it conforms to his direction. John 4:23-24

This is why it is united worldwide, and love among its members transcends national, racial, tribal, and language barriers.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Well, since you belong to a religion that wants all people to love one another and live in peace and unity, what's more important... to actually love all people and respect them for who they are or to push your religion as being the newest and truest? It's unfortunate, but Baha'is and Christians both believe and say that they love all people, but it's hard to put it into practice.

The problem, I think, is that both believe they are right... that they have the true message from God and the right interpretation of that message. Therefore, they are told to go "spread" the word or go "teach" others about the truth from God. What happens way too often is that the person is nice to people to try and get them to listen to them tell the story about their religion. So, can believers in those types of religions, those that believe they have the truth and are trying to make converts, really be honest about how they show "love" and are being "loving" to others? Will they still love them after the person has rejected the message? Or worse, after they have converted?

True love for all has got to be nearly impossible to actually accomplish. Can anyone really do that? Even loving all the people within your family? Or in your religion? But then add people that don't like you and your religion? And people that want to take advantage of you? Like if I asked you now if you could send me $10,000 would you do it? Out of love could you just send it and not worry about why I need it or what I'm going to do with it? Or, even if I was in rags and begging on a street corner and smelling of wine and only asked for a few dollars, would you give it to me? Knowing there is a good chance I'd just go buy another bottle of wine?

Everybody is in need of true love. How do you, as a Baha'i, show true love to everybody?

Thanks CG. I’m trying to find that answer myself. Loving people can’t mean to ignore others and treat them like strangers but also it can’t mean handing out cash. So what does it mean when we are asked to love one another in any religion?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I don't have a religion, I have religious thought that is not attached to any faith. I have attended Unitarian Universalist sermons and everybody who goes on Sunday have probably known each other for years. It's very difficult to meet new people when nobody knows who you are. And what's worse is modern Unitarians don't really like talking about theology anymore. I've abandoned that religion, or rather, that religion has abandoned me in some ways. Probably because I felt no love or unity in the faith. I did feel special when I joined the religion and they placed me a section of the room designated for transcendentalists and pantheists though. *shrug*
Yeah, that's a problem. I've seen it. A person "witnesses" to another and tells them how much God love them... The person converts... goes to the church and get ignored. But maybe not totally. Sometimes, at church, people are treated very special, then get ignored. Or, when they are new converts, get the royal treatment, and then ignored. But even with "love" between two people... how long before that wears off? Or, was it even true love or just a shallow love? And, not that I can do it, but the best and most fulfilling love was when I was the one showing it and doing it for others. But that's tough to maintain. At least for me it is. And then I complain how unloved and alone I feel.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Well, since you belong to a religion that wants all people to love one another and live in peace and unity, what's more important... to actually love all people and respect them for who they are or to push your religion as being the newest and truest? It's unfortunate, but Baha'is and Christians both believe and say that they love all people, but it's hard to put it into practice.

The problem, I think, is that both believe they are right... that they have the true message from God and the right interpretation of that message. Therefore, they are told to go "spread" the word or go "teach" others about the truth from God. What happens way too often is that the person is nice to people to try and get them to listen to them tell the story about their religion. So, can believers in those types of religions, those that believe they have the truth and are trying to make converts, really be honest about how they show "love" and are being "loving" to others? Will they still love them after the person has rejected the message? Or worse, after they have converted?

True love for all has got to be nearly impossible to actually accomplish. Can anyone really do that? Even loving all the people within your family? Or in your religion? But then add people that don't like you and your religion? And people that want to take advantage of you? Like if I asked you now if you could send me $10,000 would you do it? Out of love could you just send it and not worry about why I need it or what I'm going to do with it? Or, even if I was in rags and begging on a street corner and smelling of wine and only asked for a few dollars, would you give it to me? Knowing there is a good chance I'd just go buy another bottle of wine?

Everybody is in need of true love. How do you, as a Baha'i, show true love to everybody?
Would I be correct in saying you do not follow or believe in the Bible?
I am thinking that, based on the fact that both Jesus, and his followers, had love, which moved them to teach people that in order to serve God acceptably, they needed to leave their way of worship, and accept what they were teaching, since what they taught was from God.
John 14:6; 1 John 4:6; 2 Corinthians 5:20; Matthew 9:36-38

Would my assessment be correct?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Well, since you belong to a religion that wants all people to love one another and live in peace and unity, what's more important... to actually love all people and respect them for who they are or to push your religion as being the newest and truest? It's unfortunate, but Baha'is and Christians both believe and say that they love all people, but it's hard to put it into practice.

The problem, I think, is that both believe they are right... that they have the true message from God and the right interpretation of that message. Therefore, they are told to go "spread" the word or go "teach" others about the truth from God. What happens way too often is that the person is nice to people to try and get them to listen to them tell the story about their religion. So, can believers in those types of religions, those that believe they have the truth and are trying to make converts, really be honest about how they show "love" and are being "loving" to others? Will they still love them after the person has rejected the message? Or worse, after they have converted?

True love for all has got to be nearly impossible to actually accomplish. Can anyone really do that? Even loving all the people within your family? Or in your religion? But then add people that don't like you and your religion? And people that want to take advantage of you? Like if I asked you now if you could send me $10,000 would you do it? Out of love could you just send it and not worry about why I need it or what I'm going to do with it? Or, even if I was in rags and begging on a street corner and smelling of wine and only asked for a few dollars, would you give it to me? Knowing there is a good chance I'd just go buy another bottle of wine?

Everybody is in need of true love. How do you, as a Baha'i, show true love to everybody?

You and others here make some very important points especially around conversion. If we put on a false face to get a person to join and then afterwards more or less abandon them then I understand that to be hypocrisy and not real genuine love. This is what makes so many people suspicious of anyone teaching religion.

Then what expectations would you have from religious people as far as love one another is concerned that would be acceptable to you?
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Yeah, that's a problem. I've seen it. A person "witnesses" to another and tells them how much God love them... The person converts... goes to the church and get ignored. But maybe not totally. Sometimes, at church, people are treated very special, then get ignored. Or, when they are new converts, get the royal treatment, and then ignored. But even with "love" between two people... how long before that wears off? Or, was it even true love or just a shallow love? And, not that I can do it, but the best and most fulfilling love was when I was the one showing it and doing it for others. But that's tough to maintain. At least for me it is. And then I complain how unloved and alone I feel.

It's a huge problem with most religions. The funny thing about modern Unitarianism though is many of the members are atheists and the ones who aren't don't talk about God very much. I attended a few Unitarian groups and never felt like I belonged there. Unitarianism is less of a religion and more of a location where political progressives come together to tell us how they can change the world. If I had God or Jesus in the sense that these actual Christian religions espouse I suppose I would feel love just from attending church or praying. However, that isn't the case.
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
I think it's more about integrity.
And I think what is "love and unity" to some is "irresponsible indifference" to others, and therefore considered bad or evil.
I can agree with that.
Some people consider disciplining in love to be cruel, and unnecessary.
Some people don't even like counsel, or correction. To them, that is not showing love... even when the person is trying to save them from burning their house.
 
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