Does God Exist?

[McBell]

If animals can understand the life of humans, animals could have learned from humans on how to govern the affairs of animal kingdom so as how do humans’ knowledge carry forward an ever-advancing civilization. (Same applies to mineral kingdom and plant kingdom)

If animals can understand how human mind works, they could not have allowed humans to do all the wrong doings inflicted unto them.
Animals are subject to the mercy of human understanding.

Animals live the same way the way they live the life from time immemorial. The ants’ life of teamwork had been the same from then on. Without human intervention, animals just keep living the same – the cycle of the predator and the prey.

Animals never taught nor told humans how to love, to be compassionate ….. animals just keep living without being conscious of what it was and is doing, they live the way they are and they don’t have to understand and analyze and reason out, or else they could have lived like ‘the confused’ humans.

If ever humans understand and realize that animals are expressing altruism, it is not because animals understand altruism and inform humans and demonstrate altruism to humans; but because humans understand, and it is humans who are telling himself/herself ‘yeah this behavior of animals is what is called altruism’.

If human understanding is dependent on animals or if humans learn from animals, then we could have had cows as professors. Train a monkey, it will do exactly what you what it to do without complain, defiance yes but reasons no.

If ever an animal shows wickedness, it does not mean that animal is fiend. If ever human shows wickedness, then you decide what kind of human that is…

More:

Science had proven that animals attained the perfection and perfected the greatness of the use of the five senses and they possess unparallel strong physique.

If animals understand, they could have wiped out the entire human race. They could have devised a more strategic defense other than going around bewildered and causing stampede. Some animals perfected a nocturnal life, even with just that defense humans could have died of insomnia. Imagine if ants understand, they could exterminate an entire town. Anyways

Thank goodness animals can’t understand, or else there won’t be a human race at the very moment humans exist.

Or, maybe animals understand and they pity humans that they grant humans the privilege to live.

Animals hold the key to and own the greatness of physical power; what about humans?



Can insect undersatnd humans ....

I can reconstruct my reply if you have questions.

You forgot to mention your source.

 

[OneThatGotAway]

at this point all i can do is feel sorry for you. Sad thing is there are others like you

The feelings is mutual. It must be a disappointing disturbing feeling to believe that your forefathers were apes, fishes, and germs. And that some today eat their ancestors with tartar sauce. I am glad that I don't believe that mythology. :no:

 

[OneThatGotAway]

The big bang did not produce the earth, it simply produced matter. It was gravity that gathered the matter into stars, and the stars themselves that created higher elements. When stars exploded, these higher elements got trapped into the orbits of other stars and with gravity, formed planets.

What ordered systems are you referring to? The universe is not as ordered as it seems being composed of space dust, comets, asteriods, huge gas clouds, black holes, dark matter, anti-matter, etc.

You're right that Big Bang Theory did not produce the earth. In fact, no one knows what a Big Bang produces. Why we don't know that it produces matter. Some believe that it produces matter without scientific evidence; however such beliefs begs the question: What cause a Big Bang to produce matter from nothing. That is pure nonsense; worse than any mythological story. Also, a Big Bang of matter will not produce any ordered patterns like individual gravity and its related orbit(s). That is pure speculation without scientific proof.

One of the ordered system that I am referring to is our Solar System and her components: The Sun, the Earth, the Moon, etc.; not mention the components in each of these bodies. No Big Bang Theory (Chaos) cannot produce such ordered systems as these. Only a fool would believe in such mythology as the Big Bang Theory.

 

[outhouse]

The feelings is mutual. It must be a disappointing disturbing feeling to believe that your forefathers were apes, fishes, and germs. And that some today eat their ancestors with tartar sauce. I am glad that I don't believe that mythology. :no:

evolution is as fact as gravity


your not only living in denial, but fantasy land as well.

knowing reality is never disappointing.

 

[ellenjanuary]

The feelings is mutual. It must be a disappointing disturbing feeling to believe that your forefathers were apes, fishes, and germs. And that some today eat their ancestors with tartar sauce. I am glad that I don't believe that mythology. :no:

How is that disappointing? How is it not disappointing to be born in sin, to always need repentance, to always seek salvation; to know that whatever of the world and will, your right could be found to be the righteousness of Job? How is it not disappointing the carry the portent of eternal suffering, even as such a burden makes mortal life mere suffering?

I believe in evolution. The difference between you and me... somebody is not reading their book correctly...

Dust.

Your book is six hundred sixty-four pages; never in the span of its existence has six hundred sixty-four people gotten together to agree what those six hundred sixty-four pages actually mean.

My dust is the quark-gloun plasma, thirteen point seven billion years deep, ninety-eight billion light years wide; in which every particle, every wave, every field, every philosophy was essential and necessary of what came before to come into being as ellen at the point of conception where I write... even yours, or there would be no I, here; to write.

I'm not disappointed.

I'll tell you something else - god's side, is always/has always been - god's side.

 

[Willamena]

A Buddhist quotes a Pantheist?

It's okay. You can quote Pantheists, too.

 

[diosangpastol]

I am not an atheist because we cannot prove that there is no God.

I am a theist because I cannot also prove that there is a God

why?

because I can use faith to believe in God.

 

[Dan4reason]

I am not an atheist because we cannot prove that there is no God.

I am a theist because I cannot also prove that there is a God

why?

because I can use faith to believe in God.

How can you “use” faith when faith itself is such a cop-out? Belief based on weak evidence and proof is by definition fallacious because there is little justification for your belief. I will repeat your statement replacing God with Zeus.


“I am not an atheist because we cannot prove that there is no Zeus.

I am a Greek Polytheist because I cannot also prove that there is a Zeus.

why?

because I can use faith to believe in Zeus.”



When you encounter an idea you have little evidence for and against, don't just believe it, just say, “I don't know.”

 

[McBell]

How can you “use” faith when faith itself is such a cop-out? Belief based on weak evidence and proof is by definition fallacious because there is little justification for your belief. I will repeat your statement replacing God with Zeus.

Seems to me that his argument is just as equally effective when arguing for belief in santa claus, big foot, tooth fairy, the loch ness monster, dragons, elves, fairies, minotuars, gryphons, etc.

He has pretty much taken the stance that his beliefs are true until some one proves them wrong.

 

[PolyHedral]

Seems to me that his argument is just as equally effective when arguing for belief in santa claus, big foot, tooth fairy, the loch ness monster, dragons, elves, fairies, minotuars, gryphons, etc.

He has pretty much taken the stance that his beliefs are true until some one proves them wrong.

Don't forget the FSM. :fsm:

 

[McBell]

Don't forget the FSM. :fsm:

Well yeah, him too.
As well as the invisible flying teapot...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Does the Judeo-Christian god exist?

A god that:
-Is self-described as jealous and becomes curiously infuriated when people worship things that are not him
-Is heinously violent and wrathful
-Revealed himself to a certain localized part of the world, but not to other parts
-Commanded genocide of men, women, and children
-Strategically hardens the hearts of certain people so that he gets opportunities to display his glorious power and violence
-Allows people to call down curses to kill children
-Cares how people have sex, what they wear, what they eat, and wants people to perform rituals
-Really, really likes the smell of burnt animal bodies as offerings
-Sacrificed himself who was also his own son to himself so that he can chill out and not hurt people as much and be friends with them again
-Sometimes tells people to kill all that breathe and sometimes tells people to love their enemies and turn the other cheek
-Evolves over the course of time to more closely match the contemporary culture of society and theologians as they change
-Answers prayers and performs miracles
-Tortures people that don't believe a certain thing and reward people that do believe a certain thing


Nope.

Agreed.......:yes:

 

[Dan4reason]

You're right that Big Bang Theory did not produce the earth. In fact, no one knows what a Big Bang produces.

What is funny is that scientists have understood the big bang by working backward in time. They asked where the stars came from when the universe was much smaller, then they go to an even smaller universe and ask where did the atoms that make up the stars come from in a very early universe, then they ask where the particles that make up the atoms come from. Another question is where did the energy that produced matter comes from and was this energy produced directly from the big bang or was it produced by another product of the big bang.

We really don't know what a big bang directly produces because even though we know about the universe moments before the big bang, we do not quite know about the very instant of the singularity. The closer to the moment of creation that we go, the more speculation is involved because we have less information.

Why we don't know that it produces matter. Some believe that it produces matter without scientific evidence; however such beliefs begs the question: What cause a Big Bang to produce matter from nothing. That is pure nonsense; worse than any mythological story.

A good theory is that the matter and anti-matter in the universe were produced from energy when the universe was very small and very hot. Using particle accelerators we know that this does happen at very high temperatures. We also know that matter and anti-matter can conversely be turned back into energy by putting them together. Einstein's equation e = mc^2 shows a relationship between matter and energy.

Also, a Big Bang of matter will not produce any ordered patterns like individual gravity and its related orbit(s). That is pure speculation without scientific proof.

The big bang does not produce orbits, the gravity and motions of particles will produce orbits. We do not understand why matter has gravity very much, all we know is that matter by its very nature has gravity in this universe. The origin of gravity is still a mystery but as far as my understanding is concerned, gravity is an intrinsic property of matter so if matter is produced from a product of the big bang, so will gravity. I suspect that gravity may be somewhat independent from matter.

You cannot say that the big bang cannot produce patterns such as orbits and gravity when you hardely understand the big bang itself. The very nature of causality in this universe will created patterns from non-design forces.

One of the ordered system that I am referring to is our Solar System and her components: The Sun, the Earth, the Moon, etc.; not mention the components in each of these bodies. No Big Bang Theory (Chaos) cannot produce such ordered systems as these.

Motion and gravity produced these things as I already explained with star and planet creation. Matter gets trapped in a star's orbit when it has enough tangential velocity to keep from falling into the star. Tangential velocity is the reason the moon does not fall into the earth like you would if you jumped off the roof of your house. Here is a diagram that shows rotational motion.

The key point is that a satelite with enough tangental acceleration can get stuck in the orbit of a planet. Orbits do not require a supernatural explanation and have been understood for a while. The earth is simply an orbiting planet with a lot of water.

Only a fool would believe in such mythology as the Big Bang Theory.

The big bang was derived from theoretical models of the universe using general relativity and that space itself in the universe is expanding and the universe has existed for billions of years. The earlier back in time we go, the smaller and hotter the universe gets. It is a reasonable inference that this hot dense universe came from a singularity but this requires evidence to be science.

Decades after the big bang hypothesis was created by a Catholic priest we discovered the cosmic radiation that came from the big bang. This radiation is everywhere and uniform, and is very cold just like it should be if it had been sitting around for 14 billion years. This radiation ended any chance Fred Hoyle had of discrediting the big bang.

 

[crotsch]

Yes.. I have met him

 

[Dan4reason]

Yes.. I have met him

In person? How did he look like?

 

[diosangpastol]

How can you “use” faith when faith itself is such a cop-out? Belief based on weak evidence and proof is by definition fallacious because there is little justification for your belief. I will repeat your statement replacing God with Zeus.


“I am not an atheist because we cannot prove that there is no Zeus.

I am a Greek Polytheist because I cannot also prove that there is a Zeus.

why?

because I can use faith to believe in Zeus.”



When you encounter an idea you have little evidence for and against, don't just believe it, just say, “I don't know.”

Out of bounds topic
It depends on how you will interpret..
Of course, if we will change the word it will have a different meaning.

Faith is a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."
We cannot judge the faith of others.

 

[Dan4reason]

Out of bounds topic

You were the one who brought up faith as a reason for believing in God. So faith is very much an in bounds topic.

It depends on how you will interpret..

Your belief in faith depends on how you interpret it, but whether faith really works does not depend on belief at all.

Faith is a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."

My question is whether the claim that God exists is in fact true. So what you are claiming is that a reason for belief not resting in logical proof or material evidence (faith) has a significant rate of yielding true ideas rather than false ideas. We both know that science and logic already do this, but how exactly does faith do this? if you cannot prove this then faith has the same credibility as snake oil.

You have told me what faith doesn't rest in (material evidence and logical proof), so what does faith rest in? Is it believing the first theological idea you hear? Believing what you hope for? Believing what your parents told you?

We cannot judge the faith of others.

If the faith of others yields low truth rates, then yes we can.

In my opinion, having faith in faith is silly. Faith needs epistemological justification. I hope you think the way I do.

 

[McBell]

Out of bounds topic

What are you talking about?

It depends on how you will interpret..
Of course, if we will change the word it will have a different meaning.

Only because you give your god special liberties and lea ways.

Faith is a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."

Faith is stubborn belief in something your intellect would normally reject.
Otherwise, there is no need for faith.

We cannot judge the faith of others.

Not only can people judge the faith of others, they do it all the time.
Especially those who tout how people who believe differently than themselves are going to hell for believing differently.

 

[OneThatGotAway]

evolution is as fact as gravity
your not only living in denial, but fantasy land as well.
knowing reality is never disappointing.

Gravity is a fact. But evolution is a fantasy and poor mythology. You believed it so much that you are unable to tell fact from fantasy.

 

[Orias]

Gravity is a fact. But evolution is a fantasy and poor mythology. You believed it so much that you are unable to tell fact from fantasy.

Back it up.