sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
A blow to the head might compromise one's ability to reason. Perhaps you meant one's desire to reason?
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Does faith compromise a person's ability to reason?
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strikeviperMKII
Well-Known Member
1. Let's say you have a class of fourth graders who want to do something charitable, say donate money to a charity or something. The first thing they have to think about is where they are going to get the money. You ask them, and nobody knows. Then you ask if they had bought any soda from the vending machine this week. Almost all of them raise their hands. Then you say 'well, why don't we use that money?'
Lent is the same way. Eating no meat on Fridays is a tradition more than anything, but it is a way to start thinking. Last Lent, I ate meat on Fridays, but I also tried to do something different than I normally do. There is a point to abstaining from meat on Fridays. You give something up (or add something new) to teach yourself a lesson.
2. Praying to Mary...well, you can put just about any name there and it would be the same. The common conception of prayer is silly, as many people on this site have pointed out. I ask for something and God will either give it to me, not give it to me, or tell me to wait.
Yeah, right. I think I figured out this delusion when I was in second grade.Prayer isn't asking God(or anyone else) for what you want. The part of mass where we say a prayer and then say 'lord, hear our prayer' isn't praying at all. Prayer is about silence. You put forth what you think you need or want, and that's it. It's not about asking for anything. It's written in the Gospels (either Luke or Matthew, I'm not sure).
3. This one is quite possibly the easiest one to explain...but the hardest to experience. Does the wine and bread turn into Jesus' body and blood? Do I even need to answer that question?
Yes of course it does. No wait, it actually is. We dug up Jesus and put him in the flour and the grapes. Now we need you to throw up now, so we can resuse it.
^Being stupid.
It's not anything special. It's bread and wine. Stale bread and bad wine if you ask me. It's just ordinary bread and wine, that earth has grown and human hands have made. It doesn't change.
That's the whole point.
Believing that the ordinary is actually extraordinary is not uncommon. You see it in movies all the time. The hero is just an ordinary guy (or gal) until they realize that they can be extraordinary. The transformation of the bread and wine is the same concept.
"Does faith compromise a person's ability to reason?"
I think it can. It seems to me that those with faith are hamstrung by their beliefs. A person can have faith, and yet still have doubts, just like the rest of us. And that's not contradictory because the underlying faith is consistent, overall, while the doubting is confined to aspects rather than the object of faith. What happens, I think, is that shards of doubt are prevented from penetrating the person's faith too deeply by the believers being selective in their reasoning. The same might be said of the sceptic, but the sceptic isn't appealing to a supposed higher truth, and can always be wrong.
I think it can. It seems to me that those with faith are hamstrung by their beliefs. A person can have faith, and yet still have doubts, just like the rest of us. And that's not contradictory because the underlying faith is consistent, overall, while the doubting is confined to aspects rather than the object of faith. What happens, I think, is that shards of doubt are prevented from penetrating the person's faith too deeply by the believers being selective in their reasoning. The same might be said of the sceptic, but the sceptic isn't appealing to a supposed higher truth, and can always be wrong.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
I agree, it can definitely compromise a person's ability to reason.
However, the fact it says "does" as opposed to "can" seems to paint a broad brush question.
Jacksnyte
Reverend
Exactly. I think a lot of people use it as an excuse for intellectual laziness. They think they have found the absolute ANSWER, and they can now sit back, free from responsibility to better their ability to use their brain for anything more than defending an increasingly untenable position. Hence such things as circular logic, and one-true-wayism.
waitasec
Veteran Member
i think we all have the desire to reason, otherwise we'd be vegetables or insane.
it's a question of how honest are we willing to be to ourselves, maybe?
outhouse
Atheistically
here is direct proof that religion does compromise ones ability to reason.
here is a creationist that believes in his heart that man can live past 200 years because of the myths in the bible.
this is severe ignorance due to religion but not just ignornace, this guy jumps completely out of reality due to this view. %100 BLINDED by religion alone.
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...5-men-living-beyond-200-years-fiction-18.html
here is a creationist that believes in his heart that man can live past 200 years because of the myths in the bible.
this is severe ignorance due to religion but not just ignornace, this guy jumps completely out of reality due to this view. %100 BLINDED by religion alone.
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...5-men-living-beyond-200-years-fiction-18.html
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Not everyone who has religion is a creationist, a literalist, a Christian, or even Abrahamic. Piece of the broad brush.
To point out religion compromises one's ability to reason because of some fools who don't understand how the world works doesn't mean everyone is like that, and otherwise it's a pretty weak point. Another piece of the broad brush.
For God-or-no-God's sake, people.
Seriously. C'mon.
To point out religion compromises one's ability to reason because of some fools who don't understand how the world works doesn't mean everyone is like that, and otherwise it's a pretty weak point. Another piece of the broad brush.
For God-or-no-God's sake, people.
Seriously. C'mon.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
It says "Does faith"
Not "Do some faiths"
Or
"Do some views of faiths"
Or
"Do Abrahamic faiths"
It just says "Does faith".
That includes mine.
So I disagree: it IS about everyone.
Vendetta
"Oscar the grouch"
Because salavation, physical and non physical is through Jesus through his sacrifice on the cross.
waitasec
Veteran Member
this is why i think faith compromises the ability to reason...
notice post #31
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/111046-how-do-you-know-your-religion-4.html
notice post #31
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/111046-how-do-you-know-your-religion-4.html
outhouse
Atheistically
you can split hairs if you want, facta are facts.
fact is that faith does compromise ones ability to reason. I have provided proof. So have others.
have you or anyone else provided proof it does not???
Vendetta
"Oscar the grouch"
listen cupcake...i'm agreeing with you
that is why i said faith is convenient that way and fills up any hole...
from crossing the street to believing your parents are your parents to knowing your dog will greet you at the door.
i think you are perhaps mixing up faith with religious faith when you say..,
when one wonders one contemplates either; god did it or how was that done
one already limited itself the other keeps the options open. see what i mean?
but we are arrogant creatures, we do give ourselves an undue sense of importance, do we not? and faith is a symptom of arrogance because it assuredly assumes knowledge, like assuming your dog will greet you at the door...
Ok donut....I misunderstood you. My fault. No I don't mix religious and social faith up. I clearly distinguished the two.
To answer your second paragraph I would say in that I am referring to religious faith at this point, sorry if I was not clear. I think I understand when you say religion limits. I guess if you believe God created gravity there is no need to contemplate how gravity exists, am I understanding you correctly? Well if that is in fact what you mean then I don't see why a Christian who gets his or her doctorate in physics or astrophysics if they weren't contemplating on he details of gravity's existence.
waitasec
Veteran Member
it's all good. sometimes it's within misunderstandings we figure out the darndest things
because we all have an innate sense of curiosity...
the dilemma of humainty...faith and curisoity.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Showing what a couple of literalist Christians or Muslims think is not definitive proof. Nor is it overwhelming evidence. Nor is it fitting for all religions. Nor all relgious people.
Why the hell should I? I don't feel like getting harassed for simply thinking differently and being called an unreasonable or irrational fool, or having my views misconstrued and having someone insult me over things I don't actually believe in. I'm not interested in proof or dis-proof. This isn't a ******* contest, we're not trying to see whose dick is bigger. Well, I'm not at least. I'm trying to teach people something very simple: you can't paint everyone with a broad brush, or use the literalists as basis for everyone.
As I already pointed out: there's more than just Christians and Muslims. So what has happened? Christianity has been used to prove you're right. Guess what? You're not. It just looks foolish to turn every believer into a Christian.
All this focus on anything Abrahamic being used to disprove religion in general is not only foolish, it's boring.
I've seen it on here enough: a lot of people's understanding of the non-Abrahamic paths are often pretty damn weak.
Vendetta
"Oscar the grouch"
it's all good. sometimes it's within misunderstandings we figure out the darndest things
because we all have an innate sense of curiosity...
the dilemma of humainty...faith and curisoity.
Waitasec you brought up a point I agree. I do believe if religion is a substitute for thinking, yea religious faith can be distracting. Like the kids in the middle east madrasas, who only read the Koran. I believe these.kids are.missing a wealth of knowledge to learn about the known world.