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Featured Do you want Real Truth or convenient Truth?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by stvdv, Aug 2, 2020.

?
  1. 01: I dare to reject the verse from my own Scripture (if my conscience tells me)

  2. 02: I dare to reject the verse from other's Scripture (if my conscience tells me)

  3. 03: I have rejected 1 or more verses from my own Scripture

  4. 04: I have rejected 1 or more verses from other's Scripture

  5. 05: I would not dare to say NO to God, if He told me something personally

  6. 06: I would say NO to God, if what He tells me goes against my Conscience

  7. 07) I never go against my Conscience

  8. 08) I do go against my Conscience sometimes

  9. 09) I do go against my Conscience, and feel not bad about it

  10. 10) For me it's a challenge in life to purify and follow my Conscience

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. frbnsn

    frbnsn Member

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    while creating human, some abilities (mind, intuition, conscience ... etc) in him/her; we can understand this with our experience by reading life.
    God, all the Scriptures, the heroes we call the propheties, are calling us to use these natural abilities.
    So I believe Truth in you!
     
  2. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    You are aware that science is prescriptive in that you ought to do as other humans do in order for you to do science. That is subjective. That it is useful for you when you use the word "science" to do as other humans do, is subjective because it is useful to you.
    The actual criteria in science are objective, but you follow them, because that is subjectively useful to you.

    Any context of usefulness is subjective.
     
  3. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    But who decides what is or is not.... idiocy?

    So you've never been healed by a healer...... have you ever investigated healing and healers or are you just repeating an indoctrination?
    In 1972 I took my very sick wife to Harry Edwards of Leatherhead, England. She did not have any more grand mal seizures for a couple of years (previously every day) and when they restarted I went back to Leatherhead to discover that Harry had just died. Most strange events.

    I had healing on Monday 16th October 2017 at a Spiritualist church in Whitstable, England, and two days later at 11am my wife and I heard from the specialist that all my cancer tests (11) had come back negative. He (and I) expected a quite different result.
    But the crazy thing is, after having the most dreadful knee problems for over 40 years (couldn't kneel, stand up on my bike pedals, climb steps, etc) after 16/10/17' my blooming knees cleared up. I can kneel, stand up on my bike pedals, the lot.
    That Xmas I confided in a close friend about all this. He contacted the next spring because his mother-in-law had been diagnosed with a brain tumour and he wondered if a visit to see this healer might comfort her a bit. She went to this healer. A few months later I asked my friend about his mother-in-law's brain tumour and he replied, 'Oh that.....' that it had just gone away.... or something.

    I'm not quite so quick to wave the 'idiot' flag at anybody these days.

    Nope. A person who believes in something that is untrue is NOT A LIAR! :)


    I don't know. Never heard of that kind of thing.
     
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  4. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Like Sherlock and Mickey they have no objective existence. But roughly like you can draw Sherlock and Mickey on your sketchpad, so you can have the concept of Sherlock and Mickey in your brain ─ which like the sketchpad is entirely physical.
     
  5. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    So there is physical, yet not objective existence? How does that work?
     
  6. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Do you think a drawing of Mickey portrays a real creature?

    Do you think a drawing of Sherlock portrays a real human?

    Well they don't. They portray concepts of imaginary beings, beings with no objective existence.

    Do you think that justice has objective existence? It doesn't. It too is a concept, an abstraction derived from real examples that we onlookers agree are each examples of a just (or unjust) procedure or outcome ─ the examples are real but the abstraction is not. Like the number 2, justice is not a thing but an idea.
     
  7. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    So if the abstraction is not real and has no objective existence, how can we talk about it with words/signs that there are represent on real things; computer monitor.
    How can the unreal have a physical representation on something, which is objective?
     
  8. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Thanks a lot for your fantastic reply. I liked all of your lines.:)
    Skepticism sounds not positive to me, but I like how you phrased it:)
    You not only tried but also succeeded to make it very clear (at least to me):)

    I came to this conclusion also.
     
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  9. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, skepticism is a negative in that it marks a limit to understanding, making sense of, knowledge of and so on the world. For the positive you need positive beliefs and you won't find them in skepticism unless you go total non-committal being. I.e. skepticism in that sense is a bit like some forms of Eastern thoughts.
     
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  10. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    No, the abstraction is real ─ a particular set of brain states ─ but its contents have no objective existence.

    (That's the sense in which it's analogous to a drawing of Mickey or Sherlock.)
    There are, I think, two and only two ways in which something can exist. First, the Kremlin can exist both as a building with objective existence, and as a concept in a brain. If the brain dies, that won't affect the real Kremlin. Second, the number 2 can exist as a concept in an individual brain; but search the universe and you won't find an uninstantiated 2 in the wild, because it's an abstraction.
     
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  11. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    So the non-objective exists?
     
  12. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    The trouble comes in knowing God's will. Do you rely on the Bible alone? Everyone interprets it differently. Do you rely on one Denomination or some leader? Do not rely on arms of flesh. Do you rely on personal revelation? The devils appears as an angel of light and deceives many... I don't trust any claiming they follow God... I do not see anyone as following God, only those who justify and try to give power to their personal opinions by tacking on "this is what God commands". It is not what God commands of course, it is what that person would like God to command. We all only really follow our own conscience.
     
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  13. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Thanks. Interesting, when doing some more introspection

    We say "my abilities", so the abilities are different from "who I am".
    So, "I" seems to be the Master, more powerful than "I's abilities"
    Does "I" need "it's abilities" to figure out Truth?

    Or is the trick to realize that "I's abilities" are an obstruction for "I" to know the Truth?
    Because the Scriptures do declare "in silence (mind) truth can be found"
    Indicating that the mind, which is an ability, seems to be an obstruction
    So, if the mind is an obstruction, then why not the other abilities?

    Especially considering the advice of some of the Wise to say no to special abilities
    because according to them, they are an obstruction in realizing the Truth
    (Abilities like clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairsentience...)
     
  14. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, of course, but only in the forms created by individual brains. The non-objective exists, in other words (and only exists) as concepts, or things imagined, by the individual, that have no objective counterpart ─ such as Sherlock, Mickey, justice and 2.
     
  15. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    So how do something objective and physical cause the non-objective and physical?
     
  16. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Probably that's why I feel okay with skepticism, because I love Eastern thoughts, especially "Neti...neti" concept. Ultimate skepticism I guess.
     
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  17. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    read and study the bible is a good way to find out what God's will is .
    in the states as it is in many countrys is the fredom of religion and peopel take it to mean they can worship the most high God any way they want to . Yet when the bible is read and stuidyed, such an idea is not found.
     
  18. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    I only voted so I could see the result. :oops:
     
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  19. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Freedom of Religion is simple to me. All are free to practise the Religion of their choice.
     
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  20. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Seems to me, that the Bible agrees with Freedom of Religion, being "All are free to practise the Religion of their choice."
     
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