Do you love the Islamic God? (question to Atheists)

[Link]

Gods appear to be the cause of religious terrorism, murders misogyny, theft, slavery and so on.

Get rid of the god delusion and there's your cure.

And if God is not the source of that, it would be corruption in humans who corrupted his guidance that caused all that. Why would I want to get rid of God's guidance so as to replace it by corrupt humans who are the ones who corrupted his teachings in the first place?

 

[Link]

Because all Islamic societies adopted those traits and only started to abandon them gradually, usually under pressure from other societies, in the last century in a half. Is this thread about you or is it about the Islamic God?

Well, I feel I have a honest approach to Islam, God and religions. So both. I'm wondering why people don't adopt by methods as well.

 

[Aupmanyav]

And why does he do so per Quran?

Why should I break my brain for a non-existing entity. There are other things to do.

 

[Link]

Though I am neither an atheist nor a Moslem, I think you may be into something here. Many of the atheists on this forum seem to have very definite ideas about the God they don’t believe in. I suppose it’s easier to disbelieve if you know exactly what it is you don’t believe in.

The thing is if Islamic God is the True God and has proof.

There is two ways to escape him.

Make up a God with no proof and ignore the true one.
Not accept God's existence all together.

Atheists want proof and so won't do the first option.

They will not investigate the sent ones and their message or God's books sincerely, because, they don't want God of the that truth they dislike to exist.

 

[ChristineM]

Islamic God is the only God with proof.

First, what falsifiable proof does Islam have that would stand up as proof in an honest court of law?

They find a God that just watches (Deism) irrational.

Next, You appear to have a very strange notion of what theism is

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'm trying to understand both apathy and hate. So far no one has answered they love the Islamic God. I'm trying to understand their perspectives as to why.

So perhaps expand why it doesn't appeal to you?

None of the Gods as depicted do, since they just seem to be projections from the era as to when the religion formed - and not for all time. I'd prefer a God with a more flexible approach to life - especially human life - and not set in stone, as to rules and such, particularly when this might restrict human development and/or create views of life so as not to enable any such development. Not noticed that we have actually progressed over the last several thousand years?

PS I don't hate any Gods or religions.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So why do you conclude it's the teachings of Islam?

A book, a teaching could also be for show. It may not be the reality. So, Do not think that I would not be impressed by just what is written in a book. The books are only advertisements. Scammers create beautiful web-sites.

 

[Link]

Why should I break my brain for a non-existing entity. There are other things to do.

Okay it's very simple. Value is created and love is to value on truth. When we value God we build recognition of higher light and Ahlulbayt (A) light, that creates power.

God says in Quran:

"And we did not create the Jinn and humans except to worship me"
"I do not ask them sustenance nor that they feed me."
"Indeed God is the Sustainer The possessor of Power the Big"

This means it's not about us giving God anything, it's about him giving us. If we value in truth, we will worship God only. And will exalted his chosen ones and honor the believers of them.

And all this causes us to receive light and power and honor and sustenance from him - and drawing close to God and God as a reward, makes every other gift trivial.

Recognizing Value in it's due form (highest to lowest) is needed to ascend by eyes of love in the unseen journey and return to the absolute.

Ascension is not possible by falsehood eyes.

 

[Link]

First, what falsifiable proof does Islam have that would stand up as proof in an honest court of law?

It's layered with proofs upon proofs philosophically, the first type of proofs to accept is the type that proves God and his Oneness, but for one, Quran is a divine miracle that if studied becomes obvious it is only from God.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think this is because they imagine good and evil from an atheistic perspective ignoring the nature of it from Islamic perspective and don't understand how it has explained this in terms of belief and disbelief.

If you watch Starwars, you have to pretend to believe in the force, right?

BTW: I forgot to add the link in my last post. I added it after you quoted it.

It sounds like you're acknowledging that the Islamic God can't be considered moral without accepting a bunch of tenets of Islam.

From the viewpoint of how Islamic God and faith and disbelief relates to him in terms of good and evil, why is it wrong per your view to be intolerant towards evil and disbelief?

You have to understand the metaphysics of Quran and suspend disbelief for a bit. Play the scenario like a fiction book and tell me why is it wrong if the cursed tree and blessed tree are what they are, to punish the dirty tree and it's people?

For one thing, if God is the ultimate designer and creator of everything, then any fault in the universe ultimately reflects on God. Our shortcomings as "creation" are God's shortcomings as "creator." Ultimately, God punishing his "creations" for not living up to his standards is punishing others for his own mistakes.

Apart from that, there are all the "Problem of Evil"-type implications of omnipotence and omniscience. For instance:

When I was 5, one of my teammates on my baseball team was killed. We heard later that he ran out into the street and was hit by a garbage truck.

I don't fault my friend - he was 5. I also don't necessarily fault the driver - he may not have been able to stop in time.

... but if God were real, then he recognized what was about to happen and could have warned the driver or stopped the kid, but chose not to. If your God is real, he chose a violent, painful death for that child... as well as for countless children through history. That's pretty monstrous.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"And we did not create the Jinn and humans except to worship me"

So God failed, then.

Edit: also, the idea of creating sentient beings for the express purpose of worshipping you would fall squarely under "nasty," IMO.

 

[Aupmanyav]

They will not investigate the sent ones and their message or God's books sincerely, ..

You are increasing problems for your own self. Give the proof of existence of God. And then give the proof that the people who are supposed to have come with a message were sent by God. And lastly proove that the message given by them is the same as that given to them by your God. Instead of one, now you have to show three proofs.

 

[Link]

None of the Gods as depicted do, since they just seem to be projections from the era as to when the religion formed - and not for all time. I'd prefer a God with a more flexible approach to life - especially human life - and not set in stone, as to rules and such, particularly when this might restrict human development and/or create views of life so as not to enable any such development. Not noticed that we have actually progressed over the last several thousand years?

PS I don't hate any Gods or religions.

I can see your preference, and I would agree God requires some flexibility in his approach to life, but somethings are universal. When it comes to morals:

Universal morals
Situational ethics that is context based
Factors of how to apply morality and justice in the given time and situation

And other things to consider.

But Guidance of God would in theory apply to all these. I believe Quran and Sunnah do so, but have been wrongly approached in this regard.

 

[Link]

Instead of one, now you have to show three proofs.

You are correct. I believe I have shown all three in these forums.

I've made threads addressing each of these three.

 

[Link]

BTW: I forgot to add the link in my last post. I added it after you quoted it.

It sounds like you're acknowledging that the Islamic God can't be considered moral without accepting a bunch of tenets of Islam.


For one thing, if God is the ultimate designer and creator of everything, then any fault in the universe ultimately reflects on God. Our shortcomings as "creation" are God's shortcomings as "creator." Ultimately, God punishing his "creations" for not living up to his standards is punishing others for his own mistakes.

Apart from that, there are all the "Problem of Evil"-type implications of omnipotence and omniscience. For instance:

When I was 5, one of my teammates on my baseball team was killed. We heard later that he ran out into the street and was hit by a garbage truck.

I don't fault my friend - he was 5. I also don't necessarily fault the driver - he may not have been able to stop in time.

... but if God were real, then he recognized what was about to happen and could have warned the driver or stopped the kid, but chose not to. If your God is real, he chose a violent, painful death for that child... as well as for countless children through history. That's pretty monstrous.

Okay fair enough the problem of evil poses problems. But it would say Islamic God is impossible. But if Islamic God exists, then problem of evil in this scenario would be solved. You are giving reasons not to believe in Islamic God, but not reasons to dislike it as fiction.

In the fiction scenario, God and evil would be compatible, and there would be a reasonable explanation for it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Make up a God with no proof and ignore the true one.
Not accept God's existence all together.
Atheists want proof and so won't do the first option.
They will not investigate the sent ones and their message or God's books sincerely, ..

Yeah, that is exactly what we do. - Not accept God's existence all together. Provide us the proof an we will consider.

You are correct. I believe I have shown all three in these forums.
I've made threads addressing each of these three.

Kindly give me the links.

 

[Link]

So God failed, then.

Edit: also, the idea of creating sentient beings for the express purpose of worshipping you would fall squarely under "nasty," IMO.

If Atheist would be true, I would worship my friends, family and some good human beings I'm aware of being good, because they would be highest valued beings.

Worship is just what is honored and valued at highest. If no God, then we all there is. In this case, we would be gods depending if we are moral or not.

If God exists, then we should value God at a level like nothing else. Hence why we should reserve a level of valuing, love, and honoring for it.

 

[ChristineM]

And if God is not the source of that, it would be corruption in humans who corrupted his guidance that caused all that. Why would I want to get rid of God's guidance so as to replace it by corrupt humans who are the ones who corrupted his teachings in the first place?

Ask any religious terrorist why they are killing people, the reply in whatever religion is whatever they call their god. Their interpretation of their holy book.

There ya go... In general humans are not corrupt, and without a god belief to take them from the road of human morality there would be even less corruption

 

[Mock Turtle]

I can see your preference, and I would agree God requires some flexibility in his approach to life, but somethings are universal. When it comes to morals:

Universal morals
Situational ethics that is context based
Factors of how to apply morality and justice in the given time and situation

And other things to consider.

But Guidance of God would in theory apply to all these. I believe Quran and Sunnah do so, but have been wrongly approached in this regard.

The morals thing - I just can't subscribe to the absolute or objective notion - given that I'm not prescient as to what might happen in the future, and I just don't believe one can make rules to cover all situations without bending such rules. And also, given that our morals have evolved over the centuries, and where few of the religions advocated what we would see as being more appropriate these days. If they did, it took them long enough to have any effect.

 

[Link]

Kindly give me the links.

God's Existence:

Objective Value and seeing argument! | Religious Forums

4 Easy proofs of God's Existence. | Religious Forums

Moral argument my version - proof for God. | Religious Forums

Islam in theory (archetype):

The proof of Islam (in theory) | Religious Forums

So where will you go? (81:23) | Religious Forums

Particular instance of Islam (Mohammad (s)):

Argument - proving Islam through magic (probabilistic argument) | Religious Forums

Evidence of magic upon the Quran. | Religious Forums

The Quran as a miracle - is it a legitimate challenge? | Religious Forums

Signs of eloquence in Quran | Religious Forums