Do You Fear Abuse of Power If You Enter a Church?

[Laika]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

I think if I joined a church, I would be inclined to treat it more as a community for emotional support, a kind of therapy and life counselling. We all need advice from time to time. The willingness to be vulnerable like that in public has it dangers and can open you up to abuse and manipulation if someone treats that kind of emotional openness and honesty as weakness or an opportunity for personal advantage.

Anything relating to subjects like sex, intimacy and death- given how intimate, controversial and emotional they are- is liable to be open to abuse. We all have buttons that can be pressed to make us do things we wouldn’t do otherwise, so it is important to choose your friends carefully.

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?

Yes. But I don’t think peer pressure is necessarily a bad thing. The desire to “fit in” amongst any group of people is part of being human. It can be largely benign and even positive sometimes, especially if people encourage to try new things or make positive life changes.

Its what you are being pressured in to that is more the cause for concern and how the majority of your peers doing something can normalise destructive behaviours or make it invisible by dulling our sense of alarm or awareness as to what is going on.

Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Yes. Maybe I’m not grown up enough to be that expressive, unguarded and emotionally uninhibited in public or I was brought up the “wrong” way, but it would set me on edge.

Don’t get me wrong- its infectious with the right group of people and sharing the energy and enthusiasm of a crowd probably feels great. Its probably quite a lot of fun too. But ordinarily, it shouts “cult!” and is something of a warning sign depending on what people believe and do with those beliefs.

I’ve always been the quiet, reflective type. Books have more power to persuade me than people (at least in the long run). I prefer the social distance when weighing up ideas, as you can put a book down or on a shelf, but saying “no” to a person, cutting them off mid-sentence or walking away from them feels rude and uncomfortable. In social situations, I want to feel I can walk away if it starts going in a direction I’m no longer comfortable with. Being in a large crowd shouting “praise Jesus” would make me uncomfortable (at least initially) because their is a very explicit expectation you are meant to join in.

Put me in a pleasant social gathering with people quietly talking, a buffet and some drinks, and I’d feel more at home. It maybe the sense that you can walk in and walk out of a gathering unannounced that is more liberating in a strange way, so it is a more restrained atmosphere conducive to being thoughtful about what is going on.

I find one-on-one conversation much more interesting, productive and intimate. A warm and friendly face is always a welcome sight. Shouting “Praise Jesus” is a little “advanced” for me. I’d prefer an entry-level introduction where I meet someone and can talk or ask them things and still feel like we can agree to differ. Social setting is important and the context for discussing these kind of beliefs matters.

 

[thomas t]

When you say "join their community" do you mean like just going to church or does it mean something you sign up to and have to do because you are a member or something?

Asking because in Denmark you just go to church if you feel like it and those that like/believe in it, obviously just go more often than the rest, but i don't think its something you join, which is why I ask?

Ah thank you for asking.
By join I mean going to service + 1 extra activity. Which maybe attending a small group, or ministering in the worship team or the engeineering team, or participating in some kind of social work, or going to a Bible study course, or else.
Thank you for asking.

 

[thomas t]

I suppose that if someone wants to join a church they already know something about it and they're comfortable with it's way of doing things, otherwise they wouldn't want to join, right?
And even if they didn't do their homework and later on find the church disappointing, they can leave. I don't know any churches that force people to stay against their will.

speaking from own experience, what some might fear is the big boss who tells you "this and this and this is going wrong in your life".
I converted aged 22. Before, I would really have feared potential abuse of power in a sense that they would tell me I must abondon friends or whatever.
@9-10ths_Penguin (see also post #22, this is where I explain my personal understanding of joining a church).

 

[Subduction Zone]

No. I keep my powers well under control even when I go into a church. How did you find out about them? I thought that they were my secret powers.

 

[thomas t]

Am I telling you anything you didn't really already know? I'm genuinely curious. I've had my say, I absolutely will not comment on any response you offer to that question other than to at most thank you for it. There are good reasons any person in any circumstances can miss or overlook the obvious. We all do it at times. It's so common I've become curious about it when it happens. It jives perfectly with my current understanding of the limits to our realism.

I was thinking more of adults who think about joining a church.
Also, I'm less interested in the mainline churches, Protestant or Catholic.
I should have pointed it out earlier, though.

 

[Quintessence]

If one considers a UU fellowship a "church" (they do have physical buildings and are an organized religion) I've on-and-off been part of a few of those in my years. At no point did I go "gee, I'm worried that the people in charge will abuse their power" when thinking about attending or joining. That sounds kind of paranoid, if I'm honest. I'm not sure I've thought that about any organization I've joined or thought of joining, whether it gets labeled religious or otherwise.

 

[firedragon]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

Long ago, I used to rent a car from a catholic priest. He was such a gem of a man that I could never imagine him abusing anything, leave alone power.

 

[Sunstone]

I was thinking more of adults who think about joining a church.
Also, I'm less interested in the mainline churches, Protestant or Catholic.
I should have pointed it out earlier, though.

Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense now.

 

[stvdv]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

Usually they refrain from abusing you upon first entrance, as they usually don't want to scare potential members away, so "first entrance" is friendly

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

I would only "really join" a community IF I trust the one in charge fully AND their philosophy should match my view (visiting is no problem for me)

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

I indeed felt exactly that way in the Church I visited in Holland, so I decided to keep going there, until I solved "my problem of feeling uncomfortable". Took a long time to overcome those feelings, but I managed finally, and then it was time to leave for me. Great and perfect timing of God, a few weeks later the Church "closed" due to Corona Rules. God gave me just enough time to work through my 'stuff' (I stayed for ca. 5 years I think)

 

[Nimos]

Ah thank you for asking.
By join I mean going to service + 1 extra activity. Which maybe attending a small group, or ministering in the worship team or the engeineering team, or participating in some kind of social work, or going to a Bible study course, or else.
Thank you for asking.

In that case I don't know, haven't tried. However I still would be surprised if there were any forms of abuse of power. I know that some churches here have "fun" days for kids and stuff, but my impression is that it is a community thing and not a "let's brainwash your kids" kind of thing, at least I would assume it would be all over the news if that were the case.

But then again, religion in Denmark is fairly relaxed, nothing like you would see in the bible district in the US for instance also people rarely talk religion here. And in general don't care what religion others hold as long as they don't try to tell or force it unto others, the biggest issues being with Islam, as some of the more religious ones, feel like they are being discriminated against when the rest of us doesn't want to follow them. Yet they unfortunately have managed to get some stupid rules forced through, like what food can be served and stuff like that.

Most other religions seems to manage rather well and simply adjust and do things their own way, without interfering with danish traditional culture.

This might sound like im having an issue with Islam in particular, but it is more of a general issue with any religions that forces rules on others for no good reason. But since none of the others seems to do it, I tend to think that is a major flaw in Islam. But most muslims here are most likely more relaxed than you would find in the Islamic countries for obvious reasons. So that is good.

 

[sun rise]

When I was young and an atheist, we attended a Conservative (Jewish) Shul from time. I also attended a "Folkshul" (school) which in that time and place had religious elements but learning Hebrew and history were more of a focus. Religion came in when we studied the history of various holidays (Holy Days) and some basic prayers such as the blessing over bread and wine and the fundamental "Sh'ma" statement of God being One. I was not a believer but went along with the program following my parents who were not believers either but still did attend for weddings/funerals and the like and wanted me to learn what it meant to be Jewish. Still to this day, I think about writing "G'd" rather than "God" which shows that some of it stuck.

Later when my atheism left and I was searching for a "guru/spiritual director/teacher", exoteric religious churches etc had no attraction for me. And fortunately I was not in the least drawn to cults where devotion to the leader was demanded and people were told to withdraw from the world.

 

[oldbadger]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

No, but I am always more careful with what I talk about.

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Some church leaders can be very pushy, very confrontational, others are most welcoming.

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

I don't mind if congregations worship in individual ways. But I can't copy them.
I am a Deist.

 

[Nakosis]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

No, they wouldn't really have any power over me. How can you abuse what you don't have?

I understand this is not the same for everyone. I don't care about the pressure that can be put on me by the opinion of others.
However, if I saw someone else being hurt by it, I might take steps to undermine their power.

If everyone jumps up and shouts "Praise Jesus" depends on how I feel. I might just sit there or I might join in.

 

[Heyo]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

I'm an Agnostic, why would I think of joining a church (except, maybe, the UU)? I even don't enter any temples although they are often open to the public. I find it irreverend.

So, the question, as put, doesn't apply to me. Do I fear abuse of power by the religious towards others?
Not more than abuse of power by secular authorities, teachers, police, politicians. Maybe even less as the state has much more power than the churches here in Germany.

 

[PureX]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

No, but to be honest, that's because they have no power (authority) over me. And at the first suggestion that they do, I'd be out the door.

 

[Inquire of God]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

As a former seeker I was never afraid of any type of abuse.
It may have something to do with the fact that I had already lived on the streets from the time I was 11 till I was 19 though, having been abandoned by my parents. It made me tough and the only thing I fear is being overpowered and tortured or living my life wrongly per God's judgment. Death, fighting, bossy people and anything else are not scary, to me.

 

[Left Coast]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

Evangelical abuse of power is often subtle and not something one would notice from just visiting a church once in while. In my experience, once you become more involved, Evangelical leaders often cross boundaries in terms of prying into people's personal, especially sexual, lives, and pressuring them to do or not do x, y, z because it is "against God's will" and so on.

Abuse of power can also happen financially, but anecdotally seems more rare and even Evangelicals themselves find it very troubling when things like that are uncovered.

 

[Clara Tea]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Jesus blasted churches for having ornate ornaments and not helping the poor.

Atheists don't believe in God. That doesn't mean that they fear the KKK (Christian group with white sheets, burning crosses and lynching Black people and burning down their homes). It doesn't mean that they fear the Nazi party as they marched down the streets of a Jewish community (Skokie, Illinois). It doesn't mean that they want a separation of church and state (while churches want to dole out government welfare checks, and determine who gets rations). Equality for all seems nice.

Atheists don't believe without a reason to believe. Or, they would have to believe in Santa, the tooth fairy, et al. This doesn't mean that they cringe when they hear "praise Jesus."

But some argue that the religious are programmed, and they worry about them. Reverend Applewhite's Heaven's Gate group committed suicide with the idea that their souls could travel around the solar system on a passing comet. Reverend Jim Jones talked his members into drinking poisoned koolaid.

Atheists don't fear those whom they perceive as misguided zealots (some zealots with the idea of launching nukes to rapture to heaven). Rather, they worry about their mental state.

 

[thomas t]

Evangelical abuse of power is often subtle and not something one would notice from just visiting a church once in while. In my experience, once you become more involved, Evangelical leaders often cross boundaries in terms of prying into people's personal, especially sexual, lives, and pressuring them to do or not do x, y, z because it is "against God's will" and so on.

Abuse of power can also happen financially, but anecdotally seems more rare and even Evangelicals themselves find it very troubling when things like that are uncovered.

Ah, I'm sorry to hear this.
Prying and when they find out there is some LGBT+ thing going on... setting them under pressure.
LGBT+.
If you are a remarried couple and you divorced for reasons other than adultery... no problem.
However, the one thing is as unbiblical if you follow a conservative line of thought than the other.
Yet they pick and choose and bully the gay only.

This is at least from what I see in the churches.

For many Christians being gay is a lifestyle choice like putting on boots vs. sneakers. For many, you could just snap your fingers or do a little therapy and miraculously be straight again.
It's a shame and I hope Jesus will provide the answer.
On major Christian discussion boards, LGBT+ people cannot respond to slurs made against them, because they say they don't want youths to read the other standpoint or anything pro-gay.

LGBT+ are the chosen "favorite enemy" of Christianity, it seems, and they are getting bullied out.

But who is there to speak up in the churches?
Do you want to have a nerve racking fight with the pastor... or do you just want to join and fellowship and sing?

 

[blü 2]

If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

Not as such. I wouldn't go there if I had such an expectation.

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

That would be on a case by case basis. If it offended me, I'd simply leave.

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?

I imagine if I joined a church, I'd do so intending to learn and conform to their ways.
Again, if I was offended, I leave.

Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

It wouldn't in this hypothetical situation, since I'd expect something of the kind.