Do You Fear Abuse of Power If You Enter a Church?

[thomas t]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

"Do You Fear Abuse of Power If You Enter a Church?"

It depends on the morality/ideology of the church in question and in effect has nothing to do with it being a church as such.

 

[thomas t]

"Do You Fear Abuse of Power If You Enter a Church?"

It depends on the morality/ideology of the church in question and in effect has nothing to do with it being a church as such.

Thank you, and how do you evaluate what you call the morality of a church in your environment?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Thank you, and how do you evaluate what you call the morality of a church in your environment?

Well, if I lived in another area than I do and could attend this type of church, I would:
Unitarian Universalism - Wikipedia

 

[ChristineM]

Before coronavirus restrictions i often visited churches, the architecture and art are really quite good. I find the "elders" quite helpful

 

[thomas t]

Before coronavirus restrictions i often visited churches, the architecture and art are really quite good. I find the "elders" quite helpful

ah thank you.

Actually, I'd like to know more about your attitudes towards evangelical/ penticostal churches or any churches more or less like them.

I'm less interested in traditional or mainline churches or builings and arts in churches.
Maybe I should have added that information earlier.
I like arts in general, though.

From my perspective, in mainline Protestant churches, at least here in Germany, noone fears abuse of powers. They are liberal.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

No. If I felt there was any chance at an abuse of power, I’d simply take my leave.

I’m quite comfortable in a church setting, and occasionally attend, as much of my extended family is Christian and I attend services with them on occasion, most recently for the funeral of my nephew. They are all aware that my worldview differs from theirs, even my ex-wife’s husband, who leads services in the community and could be described as a “church elder,” and despite my views, they accept me as part of their community. Heck, we even partake in theological discussion.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

For me it depends on the church and how structure is organised.

I do appreciate elders in a church because they have life wisdom and can help a lot, as has been in the case with my experience with having been a Christian.

But I would favour a church in which the whole congregation decides on serious matters. The problems are made public unless those involved request otherwise. But the option is there.

I would definitely fear abuse of power if the decisions made about serious matters are decided behind closed doors and the congregation must just follow whatever decision is made. I would also fear abuse of power if the church doesn't respond well to criticism made by others or those inside the congregation.

What I would do is study the power structure of how the church works and its rules and make a decision based off that.

Peer pressure in general would only really be a factor in a church which is a high control group. I wouldn't join one of those. I would join a church that has low control and only expects believers to change themselves from within, so that their faith is genuine, unlike a high control church that is legalistic.

 

[Nimos]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

When you say "join their community" do you mean like just going to church or does it mean something you sign up to and have to do because you are a member or something?

Asking because in Denmark you just go to church if you feel like it and those that like/believe in it, obviously just go more often than the rest, but i don't think its something you join, which is why I ask?

If you just mean like me going to a church and listen to a priest talk etc. then I wouldn't have any issues with it. It is not my impression that there is any form of power abuse in the regular churches. But I wouldn't exclude that you could find it amongst the more extreme believers.

But even in that case I personally wouldn't fear anything, im not easily pressured or pushed around by something i don't agree with, so I would most likely just be curious and observant and not participate in whatever praising they were doing. A priest might say a lot of good things in regards to life, but the moment they start citing or give examples from the bible as if that is some sort of authority or solution, then I don't care, because most of the time they are cherry picking stuff that simply fits what they need, like taking a single verse here and there, which on their own and out of context might sound fine, but usually have very little to do with what the bible actually say.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

I don't recognise such power(s) - well, only such as are legal requirements. I would respect the customs that would be appropriate when being in any church but all else I don't concede. Peer pressure is something one has learnt as a child or not. I think I managed OK. I probably am too humble to make a fuss if anything untoward happened and would probably leave if I felt uncomfortable, but I have confronted those who have knocked on my door to sell their wares. I have no intention, and never had, of joining any church or faith - this just if I ever found myself in such.

 

[Vee]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

I suppose that if someone wants to join a church they already know something about it and they're comfortable with it's way of doing things, otherwise they wouldn't want to join, right?
And even if they didn't do their homework and later on find the church disappointing, they can leave. I don't know any churches that force people to stay against their will.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

I'm not sure what you mean by "abuse of powers." What powers?

And by "join their community," are you talking about becoming a member of that church or something else?

 

[ChristineM]

ah thank you.

Actually, I'd like to know more about your attitudes towards evangelical/ penticostal churches or any churches more or less like them.

I'm less interested in traditional or mainline churches or builings and arts in churches.
Maybe I should have added that information earlier.
I like arts in general, though.

From my perspective, in mainline Protestant churches, at least here in Germany, noone fears abuse of powers. They are liberal.

Most of the churches (and cathedrals) a round here are catholic. The church across the square from us dates from 13th century, it's not the oldest. Last year i visited one dating from the late Roman era.

Modern churches built in the last couple of hundred years or so don't interest me.

 

[Sirona]

I was a member of the Catholic Church in Germany, a "visitor" at the Lutheran Church (Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland, EKD) in Germany (which are both official churches, so they're almost but not quite "state churches") and a "visitor" in a Protestant group affiliated with NCMI (New Covenant Ministries International - Wikipedia). While abuse is a general phenomenon which may occur everywhere (child abuse), I think in the official churches the possibility of abuse is probably lower because of their established structure. From what I learned, the Lutheran Church members are not as much interested in hierarchy as the Catholics and give more importance to a culture of discussion.

The only church I can say something negative about is NCMI. The community I was a guest/prospective convert in were deceptive about the true extent of involvement they expected from you. It started out as a one hour service mostly with "praise music". Then there was a two hour Bible-based service before the "praise" service they didn't call Bible class but "strength training". Maybe I was a bit naive but I thought they'd really lift weights on Sunday morning . Then I was given a timetable with group activities for every day of the week, like at school. They also made huge efforts to connect you to the group, for example by regularly inviting you for dinner every week with church activities afterwards. Another thing (which I cannnot prove) is that they likely gossiped and talked to others behind your back to find out what your personal weaknesses were in order to "offer Jesus as the solution" for those personal problems. They also made general efforts to make you spend all your time in the group. For example, at a weekend when there was an autumn/Halloween related fair (which in itself was just fun and not at all religious), they had a cooking event to prevent their members from mixing with the "ungodly". They also had a "tutor system" with a rule that in personal conversation, a "tutor" may only "counsel" / preach to a prospective convert of the same sex. I could go on and on with the oddities but I'd say was definitely a form of abuse of power. The problem is that for smaller (especially Christian) groups, you often cannot get any information about what they're like, in stark difference to non-Christian groups who, in Christian cultures, are often seen as "evil" and therefore seem to invite criticism. As for the NCMI group I was in, most NCMI member groups seem to call themselves just "Jesus communities" in Germany , without openly referring to NCMI, and as Jesus is seen as the epitome of "good", something that has Jesus' name in it can't be bad, can it?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I don't fear that a church in our current social climate would necessarily "abuse their powers" with regard to myself, no. I don't see how they could necessarily compel me to do anything, or what "power" they might try to wield over me. As an atheist, I do not, at all, recognize any sort of authority of clergy intrinsically. They're just people, and anything they might ask of me, I can easily (so easily) say "no."

However, there are abuses of power I have seen with regard to the believers who attend the church. Requests or insistence that one tithe in the face of poverty, for instance. That I believe to be an abuse of power. These clergy or pastors obviously have power over these individuals who believe, and they get them to do things. That opens up a whole world of possibility for taking advantage.

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

It is sort of unnerving, I will admit. Not in a "peer pressure" sort of way, certainly - because there is absolutely no way I am going to "play along." Not even close. But the awkwardness rears its head more in a vicarious embarrassment sort of capacity. As in, I feel myself embarrassed for these people doing these crazy things like speaking in tongues, or saying "amen" after what I consider some of the most inane, unworthy words I have ever heard, or putting their faces on a dirty carpet floor, or writhing all over it like a worm who just realized he's in danger, or escorting people out of the church for making plays at being "the second coming" when that person's claims are no more fantastical than any of the claims they likely make to one another on a daily basis. It's all just incredibly embarrassing.

 

[Sunstone]

Abuse of power? Just look at the sexual abuse of children perpetrated by a small percentage of the Catholic clergy alone. Religion can give clergy members nearly absolute power over people, especially vulnerable people. Do you want more facts than what's been in the news for more than twenty years?

If so, think about this: Years ago, the local newspaper ran a long article on the insurance agency in a town 40 miles south of where I live that for decades has specialized in insuring Protestant congregations against the lawsuits that only sometimes result when their pastors sexually abuse someone in their congregation. It's just a fact those lawsuits are far less common than actual incidents of abuse.

The insurance agency gets on average eight new cases per week. That means a suit somewhere in America has won it's day in court and the congregation now has to pay out for at least one creditable abuse of power by its pastor.


Sexual abuse is the low hanging fruit, here. Go ask the psychiatrists, psychologists, and therapists if you honestly want to get started on a few of the other ways religion can set a perfect stage for the abuse of power. Keep in mind, that's only a start at the ways, and the clergy is not always the people responsible.

Lots of people are just as emotionally dependent on their fellow congregants as any human is likely to be on his or her genuine community. Whoever or whatever you become emotionally dependent on has power over you. Power even toddlers learn how to abuse.

As for the atheism connection, I haven't found any mention of atheism earlier than the first attacks on it. The first, "fools be those who say in their hearts there is no God", stuff. Makes me sometimes almost wonder if there were any atheists in the world before some priest pointed out that atheism was an option.

Am I telling you anything you didn't really already know? I'm genuinely curious. I've had my say, I absolutely will not comment on any response you offer to that question other than to at most thank you for it. There are good reasons any person in any circumstances can miss or overlook the obvious. We all do it at times. It's so common I've become curious about it when it happens. It jives perfectly with my current understanding of the limits to our realism.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

No. Relationship with the sacraments and the role of the church in a intimate sense is not political. Instead of focusing on what Some christians do, most priest I talked with confession and otherwise are embarrased and saddened by majority of people's view of the church.

When I practiced, my focus was not on the church politics.

I was uncomfortable with human sacrifice and some of the theology as well as it's sad history but there are good nonreligious things the church does.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

I view clergy as having influence. Not power.

They will never dictate what I can or cannot do.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No. If I felt there was any chance at an abuse of power, I’d simply take my leave.

Thats good advice. If they start acting like little dictators, it's time to vamoose.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'd like to ask all atheists/ agnostics/ or seekers, here:
If you would plan to enter a church and maybe join their community, would you fear any abuse of powers?

I mean there are church elders that might interfere with your life perhaps... and there is a pastor who traditionally plays a large role in churches?

Or perhaps: would you feel peer pressure?
Just imagine everybody stands up all of a sudden shouting "praise Jesus" or anything like that... would that make you rather uncomfortable maybe?

Thanks in advance for answering me.

Not at all. I've been in lots of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, mandirs and the like. And I have no problem being quiet and respectful so as not to disturb the devotions of others, though I have no interest in or need to share in such devotions.

When I travel, religious buildings are high on my list of things that I like to visit, where permitted.